TexasCHLforum.com

Here are both positions in the Texas Court of Appeals regarding no warrant searches. I don't know if there has been anything since this time. INAL, but it sounds like, in this case, that the officer need pretty hard probable cause to conduct the cavity search without a warrant. The probable in this case was an informant that told the officer that the Crack was in the subjects crack. :-)

http://www.cca.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/140800c.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

....I would hold that a warrantless body-cavity search, even though conducted incident to a lawful arrest, violates the Fourth Amendment unless (1) the police have a clear indication that evidence is located within a suspect's body, (2) the police reasonably believe that the evidence would be destroyed during the delay necessary to obtain a warrant, (2) and (3) the search is conducted in a reasonable manner. See Schmerber, 384 U.S. at 770-71.

And the wrap up

Because no warrant was obtained, and because no exception to the warrant requirement is supported by the record, the visual body-cavity search of the appellant at the fire station was unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment. As the Court of Appeals held, the fruits of the illegal search should have been suppressed. Because I would affirm the judgment of the Court of Appeals, I dissent.

Here is the other side:

http://www.cca.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/140800a.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

....the Code of Criminal Procedure excused the arresting officer from having to obtain an arrest warrant, McGee's arrest was valid. Further, the visual body cavity search in this instance was a reasonable search incident to arrest, thereby excusing the officer's need to obtain a search warrant. The Court of Appeals was incorrect in holding that the cocaine should have been suppressed. We reverse the judgment of the Court of Appeals and reinstate the judgment of the trial court.

handog wrote:

gigag04 wrote:

handog wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dallas/I ... 72921.html

Two women are suing DPS for performing cavity searches on them on the roadside. Caught on dashcam. Also the women claim the female officer did not change her glove between searches.

Not sure what the fuss is all about. Police can arrest and conduct a cavity search for any reason, on no reason at all according to the SCOTUS. /quote]
Exactly! Now we're getting somewhere...

It depends on where you would like to go. If its a Police state and social control you're after there is progress. For those of us who believe in civil liberties well....not so much.

My response was no more than serious than yours ;)

Just commenting on what I saw. That did not look like a "cavity" search... a cavity search is looking up the private parts and/or anus....no officer does that.

mikedude wrote:Just commenting on what I saw. That did not look like a "cavity" search... a cavity search is looking up the private parts and/or anus....no officer does that.

Looking is not the only thing done...
And while your statement is partially correct. It should probably say" no officer is supposed to do that.

Are you a LEO? if not, might I suggest you research what is allowed at the officer level by policy and what is done by LEO's running the jails, and what is done by medical personal after a warrant is sworn out.

It may surprise you. .. or not.

mikedude wrote:Just commenting on what I saw. That did not look like a "cavity" search... a cavity search is looking up the private parts and/or anus....no officer does that.

A cavity search is either a visual search or a manual inspection of body cavities.

E.Marquez wrote:

mikedude wrote:Just commenting on what I saw. That did not look like a "cavity" search... a cavity search is looking up the private parts and/or anus....no officer does that.

Looking is not the only thing done...
And while your statement is partially correct. It should probably say" no officer is supposed to do that.

Are you a LEO? if not, might I suggest you research what is allowed at the officer level by policy and what is done by LEO's running the jails, and what is done by medical personal after a warrant is sworn out.

It may surprise you. .. or not.

Actually yes I am, and I have worked the jails and patrol. In the jails "strip searches" are done. They need to be done as suspects carry weapons and drugs into the jails. Only a medical professional can do a cavity search, with a warrant. I can say I didn't watch the whole video as it didn't show much, nor do I know specific DPS policy. I can say, IF the person consented to being searched, then they got searched. They could have said no or asked the trooper to stop at any time. Part of searching would include the pockets, waist band, crotch area (lots gets hidden there to include guns and drugs), ect. I am not sure how DPS is trained, but I have NEVER reached into a suspects pants UNLESS a weapon or other item is found during the outside search. You do reach into pockets, pull them out, feel around, ect. A careless search results in dead officers. IF the officer did a real "cavity search", then that would be a no no. They also did the search in front of the camera, which probably is policy to document it. Just because somebody is filing a lawsuit doesn't mean it is true and part of doing police work is getting sued. DPS will do an investigation and go from there. I await the facts of the case.

mikedude wrote:I await the facts of the case.

Yeah, there is always that issue. We all know how well the media reports the facts.

mikedude wrote: I can say I didn't watch the whole video as it didn't show much, nor do I know specific DPS policy.

Perhaps if you could spare the 5 minutes, you could watch the video in it's entirety, and then give us your more enlightened opinion.

I completely understand the safety issues when booking a prisoner in a jail, and if a body cavity search is called for in that situation, then it is what it is. But absent an arrest, it is a sick and evil thing to do to somebody, particularly right there in public on the side of the road. Jesus.......put yourself in their shoes. Is that what you would want done to you? All I know is that if you do a body cavity search on me, on the side of the road, especially with a 2nd hand glove, you darn well BETTER find something or I'm going to own your hindparts, and your house, and your department's budget for the next 10 years. How come it's not rape when you do it to a non-consenting innocent person, but it is rape if I do it? If any cop thinks he can stick a finger in my body where God never intended it to go, then I will, by God, give him a very good reason to arrest me, and he may well have to shoot me because I am NOT submitting to that kind of indignity and abuse without getting some licks in. I don't care what the reasoning is. You don't do that to someone without first arresting them. If you're a cop and you think this is OK to digitally rape somebody on the roadside without arresting and booking them first, then your moral compass is so far out of gimbal that you aren't qualified to be a cop.

End of story.

No, dangit.....NOT end of story. I swear to God that this is NOT something the Founders would have understood to be OK. Cops who make excuses that "well uuuhhhh....the Supreme Court allows it....." flat dishonor their oaths. I don't want to hear a cop justify this stuff to me. That doesn't give me faith in law enforcement. No. I want to hear LEOs say "you're right, that is wrong, and raping a citizen on the roadside in some unbridled effort to find evidence before arresting and bringing them in is dead wrong and unacceptable." 30-40 years ago, this would have been unthinkable, and it is just another example of the slippery slope we're on toward a police state. Let me ask you LEOs who think this is OK......since there was a time when it was unthinkable, and now it is SOP, how long will it be before you think it's OK to just cut somebody open with your knife to find out what they've swallowed?

Seriously. I am really disappointed that anyone who thinks of himself as a decent cop would defend this practice by the side of the road like that. Just one more reason to withdraw from society.

The Annoyed Man wrote:I completely understand the safety issues when booking a prisoner in a jail, and if a body cavity search is called for in that situation, then it is what it is. But absent an arrest, it is a sick and evil thing to do to somebody, particularly right there in public on the side of the road. Jesus.......put yourself in their shoes. Is that what you would want done to you? All I know is that if you do a body cavity search on me, on the side of the road, especially with a 2nd hand glove, you darn well BETTER find something or I'm going to own your hindparts, and your house, and your department's budget for the next 10 years. How come it's not rape when you do it to a non-consenting innocent person, but it is rape if I do it? If any cop thinks he can stick a finger in my body where God never intended it to go, then I will, by God, give him a very good reason to arrest me, and he may well have to shoot me because I am NOT submitting to that kind of indignity and abuse without getting some licks in. I don't care what the reasoning is. You don't do that to someone without first arresting them. If you're a cop and you think this is OK to digitally rape somebody on the roadside without arresting and booking them first, then your moral compass is so far out of gimbal that you aren't qualified to be a cop.

End of story.

No, dangit.....NOT end of story. I swear to God that this is NOT something the Founders would have understood to be OK. Cops who make excuses that "well uuuhhhh....the Supreme Court allows it....." flat dishonor their oaths. I don't want to hear a cop justify this stuff to me. That doesn't give me faith in law enforcement. No. I want to hear LEOs say "you're right, that is wrong, and raping a citizen on the roadside in some unbridled effort to find evidence before arresting and bringing them in is dead wrong and unacceptable." 30-40 years ago, this would have been unthinkable, and it is just another example of the slippery slope we're on toward a police state. Let me ask you LEOs who think this is OK......since there was a time when it was unthinkable, and now it is SOP, how long will it be before you think it's OK to just cut somebody open with your knife to find out what they've swallowed?

Seriously. I am really disappointed that anyone who thinks of himself as a decent cop would defend this practice by the side of the road like that. Just one more reason to withdraw from society.

Dave2 wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:I completely understand the safety issues when booking a prisoner in a jail, and if a body cavity search is called for in that situation, then it is what it is. But absent an arrest, it is a sick and evil thing to do to somebody, particularly right there in public on the side of the road. Jesus.......put yourself in their shoes. Is that what you would want done to you? All I know is that if you do a body cavity search on me, on the side of the road, especially with a 2nd hand glove, you darn well BETTER find something or I'm going to own your hindparts, and your house, and your department's budget for the next 10 years. How come it's not rape when you do it to a non-consenting innocent person, but it is rape if I do it? If any cop thinks he can stick a finger in my body where God never intended it to go, then I will, by God, give him a very good reason to arrest me, and he may well have to shoot me because I am NOT submitting to that kind of indignity and abuse without getting some licks in. I don't care what the reasoning is. You don't do that to someone without first arresting them. If you're a cop and you think this is OK to digitally rape somebody on the roadside without arresting and booking them first, then your moral compass is so far out of gimbal that you aren't qualified to be a cop.

End of story.

No, dangit.....NOT end of story. I swear to God that this is NOT something the Founders would have understood to be OK. Cops who make excuses that "well uuuhhhh....the Supreme Court allows it....." flat dishonor their oaths. I don't want to hear a cop justify this stuff to me. That doesn't give me faith in law enforcement. No. I want to hear LEOs say "you're right, that is wrong, and raping a citizen on the roadside in some unbridled effort to find evidence before arresting and bringing them in is dead wrong and unacceptable." 30-40 years ago, this would have been unthinkable, and it is just another example of the slippery slope we're on toward a police state. Let me ask you LEOs who think this is OK......since there was a time when it was unthinkable, and now it is SOP, how long will it be before you think it's OK to just cut somebody open with your knife to find out what they've swallowed?

Seriously. I am really disappointed that anyone who thinks of himself as a decent cop would defend this practice by the side of the road like that. Just one more reason to withdraw from society.

Yuppers

The Annoyed Man wrote:I completely understand the safety issues when booking a prisoner in a jail, and if a body cavity search is called for in that situation, then it is what it is. But absent an arrest, it is a sick and evil thing to do to somebody, particularly right there in public on the side of the road. Jesus.......put yourself in their shoes. Is that what you would want done to you? All I know is that if you do a body cavity search on me, on the side of the road, especially with a 2nd hand glove, you darn well BETTER find something or I'm going to own your hindparts, and your house, and your department's budget for the next 10 years. How come it's not rape when you do it to a non-consenting innocent person, but it is rape if I do it? If any cop thinks he can stick a finger in my body where God never intended it to go, then I will, by God, give him a very good reason to arrest me, and he may well have to shoot me because I am NOT submitting to that kind of indignity and abuse without getting some licks in. I don't care what the reasoning is. You don't do that to someone without first arresting them. If you're a cop and you think this is OK to digitally rape somebody on the roadside without arresting and booking them first, then your moral compass is so far out of gimbal that you aren't qualified to be a cop.

End of story.

No, dangit.....NOT end of story. I swear to God that this is NOT something the Founders would have understood to be OK. Cops who make excuses that "well uuuhhhh....the Supreme Court allows it....." flat dishonor their oaths. I don't want to hear a cop justify this stuff to me. That doesn't give me faith in law enforcement. No. I want to hear LEOs say "you're right, that is wrong, and raping a citizen on the roadside in some unbridled effort to find evidence before arresting and bringing them in is dead wrong and unacceptable." 30-40 years ago, this would have been unthinkable, and it is just another example of the slippery slope we're on toward a police state. Let me ask you LEOs who think this is OK......since there was a time when it was unthinkable, and now it is SOP, how long will it be before you think it's OK to just cut somebody open with your knife to find out what they've swallowed?

Seriously. I am really disappointed that anyone who thinks of himself as a decent cop would defend this practice by the side of the road like that. Just one more reason to withdraw from society.

Pretty much sums up my opinion.

carlson1 wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:I completely understand the safety issues when booking a prisoner in a jail, and if a body cavity search is called for in that situation, then it is what it is. But absent an arrest, it is a sick and evil thing to do to somebody, particularly right there in public on the side of the road. Jesus.......put yourself in their shoes. Is that what you would want done to you? All I know is that if you do a body cavity search on me, on the side of the road, especially with a 2nd hand glove, you darn well BETTER find something or I'm going to own your hindparts, and your house, and your department's budget for the next 10 years. How come it's not rape when you do it to a non-consenting innocent person, but it is rape if I do it? If any cop thinks he can stick a finger in my body where God never intended it to go, then I will, by God, give him a very good reason to arrest me, and he may well have to shoot me because I am NOT submitting to that kind of indignity and abuse without getting some licks in. I don't care what the reasoning is. You don't do that to someone without first arresting them. If you're a cop and you think this is OK to digitally rape somebody on the roadside without arresting and booking them first, then your moral compass is so far out of gimbal that you aren't qualified to be a cop.

End of story.

No, dangit.....NOT end of story. I swear to God that this is NOT something the Founders would have understood to be OK. Cops who make excuses that "well uuuhhhh....the Supreme Court allows it....." flat dishonor their oaths. I don't want to hear a cop justify this stuff to me. That doesn't give me faith in law enforcement. No. I want to hear LEOs say "you're right, that is wrong, and raping a citizen on the roadside in some unbridled effort to find evidence before arresting and bringing them in is dead wrong and unacceptable." 30-40 years ago, this would have been unthinkable, and it is just another example of the slippery slope we're on toward a police state. Let me ask you LEOs who think this is OK......since there was a time when it was unthinkable, and now it is SOP, how long will it be before you think it's OK to just cut somebody open with your knife to find out what they've swallowed?

Seriously. I am really disappointed that anyone who thinks of himself as a decent cop would defend this practice by the side of the road like that. Just one more reason to withdraw from society.

Pretty much sums up my opinion.

And mine too!

mikedude wrote:

E.Marquez wrote:

mikedude wrote:Just commenting on what I saw. That did not look like a "cavity" search... a cavity search is looking up the private parts and/or anus....no officer does that.

Looking is not the only thing done...
And while your statement is partially correct. It should probably say" no officer is supposed to do that.

Are you a LEO? if not, might I suggest you research what is allowed at the officer level by policy and what is done by LEO's running the jails, and what is done by medical personal after a warrant is sworn out.

It may surprise you. .. or not.

Actually yes I am, and I have worked the jails and patrol. In the jails "strip searches" are done. They need to be done as suspects carry weapons and drugs into the jails. Only a medical professional can do a cavity search, with a warrant. I can say I didn't watch the whole video as it didn't show much, nor do I know specific DPS policy. I can say, IF the person consented to being searched, then they got searched. They could have said no or asked the trooper to stop at any time. Part of searching would include the pockets, waist band, crotch area (lots gets hidden there to include guns and drugs), ect. I am not sure how DPS is trained, but I have NEVER reached into a suspects pants UNLESS a weapon or other item is found during the outside search. You do reach into pockets, pull them out, feel around, ect. A careless search results in dead officers. IF the officer did a real "cavity search", then that would be a no no. They also did the search in front of the camera, which probably is policy to document it. Just because somebody is filing a lawsuit doesn't mean it is true and part of doing police work is getting sued. DPS will do an investigation and go from there. I await the facts of the case.

So, if you didn't take the time to watch the video why did you take the time to comment on it from a position of total ignorance? Maybe you're a Troll?
I'll give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you are not a troll, just ignorant (of the actual contents of the video).
Assuming this is the case, if this was not a cavity search, exactly what would you call an officer inserting digits into a woman's lower orifices?

From what I saw, sticking a hand down the pants is not a cavity search. As I stated, I await the facts. IF she did this, she will be dealt with.