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Another reason to stay in your house, call 911 and NOT go outside to investigate.

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http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/200 ... -arrested/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Officer out of hospital
Homeowner not arrested in Wednesday night shootingMarissa Millender
Times Record News
Friday, October 31, 2008

A Wichita Falls police officer was released from a hospital Thursday after he was shot late Wednesday by a homeowner as the officer was making an arrest, according to police.

Officer Pedro Romero, 32, was taken to the hospital for a wound in his right arm and leg, but was later released. He is a four-year veteran of the police department.

Police worked for several hours piecing together the events that sent Romero to the hospital — and sent one man to jail.

Elmondo Leunsay Gildon, 28, was charged with evading arrest/detention in connection with the incident. His bond was set at $15,000 and he was in the Wichita County Jail Thursday.

According to police, Romero tried to pull over a vehicle for speeding in the 1800 block of Westcliff Street.

The driver jumped out of the vehicle and ran. He jumped over fences and ran between houses on the west side of Grayfox Street. He crossed the street and ran behind 1515 Grayfox, where the officer was able to catch him, said Sgt. Joe Snyder, police public information officer. The officer was trying to detain the suspect, but he resisted. The officer then used his Taser to contain the man, Snyder said.

He was walking the suspect out of the backyard of 1515 Grayfox when the resident of that house stepped outside and fired one shot toward the two men, striking the officer.

Additional officers, who were already headed to the scene to help with the pursuit, took the suspect who was in custody, Snyder said.

The bullet did not strike any bones or do any arterial damage, Snyder said.

Officers detained the homeowner and questioned him about the incident, but he was not arrested or charged. According to the news release, the Criminal Investigation Section will request the incident be turned over to a grand jury.

This is the third officer-involved shooting in Wichita Falls in one year.

The first, which occurred Nov. 18, involved officer Clinton Halloway. He was shot in the foot in the 800 block of Clay Street by a citizen.

Officer Robert Banda was shot in the knee by another officers weapon Sept. 3 while police were trying to help a woman who was being attacked by dogs. Banda is still recovering from his wound.

If it's not a cop, it's Aunt Millie coming to surprise you with a pie she baked.

This is another reason CHL class teaches you to yell "STOP, IDENTIFY YOURSELF, YOU ARE BEING VIEWED AS A THREAT TO ME" or similar.. Anyways, shooting here is not justified. Force might be (trespass), but not deadly force...

Keith B wrote:
Officer Robert Banda was shot in the knee by another officers weapon Sept. 3

Thw Wichita Falls PD needs to stop purchasing weapons that shoot people. I know I would not want one.

Anygunanywhere

anygunanywhere wrote:

Keith B wrote:
Officer Robert Banda was shot in the knee by another officers weapon Sept. 3

Thw Wichita Falls PD needs to stop purchasing weapons that shoot people. I know I would not want one.

Anygunanywhere

Yeah, I saw one for sale on eBay one time (at band camp) and I remember thinking why would I want a gun that just up and shoots people for no reason??!!?? what the heck??



Make not

All together now!

Keith B wrote:Another reason to stay in your house, call 911 and NOT go outside to investigate.

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http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/200 ... -arrested/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Officer out of hospital
Homeowner not arrested in Wednesday night shootingMarissa Millender
Times Record News
Friday, October 31, 2008

A Wichita Falls police officer was released from a hospital Thursday after he was shot late Wednesday by a homeowner as the officer was making an arrest, according to police.

Officer Pedro Romero, 32, was taken to the hospital for a wound in his right arm and leg, but was later released. He is a four-year veteran of the police department.

Police worked for several hours piecing together the events that sent Romero to the hospital — and sent one man to jail.

Elmondo Leunsay Gildon, 28, was charged with evading arrest/detention in connection with the incident. His bond was set at $15,000 and he was in the Wichita County Jail Thursday.

According to police, Romero tried to pull over a vehicle for speeding in the 1800 block of Westcliff Street.

The driver jumped out of the vehicle and ran. He jumped over fences and ran between houses on the west side of Grayfox Street. He crossed the street and ran behind 1515 Grayfox, where the officer was able to catch him, said Sgt. Joe Snyder, police public information officer. The officer was trying to detain the suspect, but he resisted. The officer then used his Taser to contain the man, Snyder said.

He was walking the suspect out of the backyard of 1515 Grayfox when the resident of that house stepped outside and fired one shot toward the two men, striking the officer.

Additional officers, who were already headed to the scene to help with the pursuit, took the suspect who was in custody, Snyder said.

The bullet did not strike any bones or do any arterial damage, Snyder said.

Officers detained the homeowner and questioned him about the incident, but he was not arrested or charged. According to the news release, the Criminal Investigation Section will request the incident be turned over to a grand jury.

This is the third officer-involved shooting in Wichita Falls in one year.

The first, which occurred Nov. 18, involved officer Clinton Halloway. He was shot in the foot in the 800 block of Clay Street by a citizen.

Officer Robert Banda was shot in the knee by another officers weapon Sept. 3 while police were trying to help a woman who was being attacked by dogs. Banda is still recovering from his wound.

Here's another reason why Keith's advice is well founded.

This one puts the shoe on the other foot. The night ninja homeowner who went outside with a club in his hands to investigate a disturbance was shot and killed by an officer who was searching for suspects. Nobody is happy with how this went down, and both the officer and the homeowner's family will never outlive this tragedy.

Excaliber wrote:Here's another reason why Keith's advice is well founded.

This one puts the shoe on the other foot. The night ninja homeowner who went outside with a club in his hands to investigate a disturbance was shot and killed by an officer who was searching for suspects. Nobody is happy with how this went down, and both the officer and the homeowner's family will never outlive this tragedy.

The linked story has a thread on it here too http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... &sk=t&sd=a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sad story on this one as the homeowner did not survive.

Any LEOs want to share some advice (OTHER than "don't") for us Night Ninja types (I know I fall into this category at times)... Something we could wear or do maybe that won't get us shot (but might get us approached/questioned still).

resident of that house stepped outside and fired one shot toward the two men

Failed to ID the threat...guy is in a HEAP of trouble!

LCP_Dogg wrote:Any LEOs want to share some advice (OTHER than "don't") for us Night Ninja types (I know I fall into this category at times)... Something we could wear or do maybe that won't get us shot (but might get us approached/questioned still).

CHL BADGE! Sorry!

LCP_Dogg wrote:Any LEOs want to share some advice (OTHER than "don't") for us Night Ninja types (I know I fall into this category at times)... Something we could wear or do maybe that won't get us shot (but might get us approached/questioned still).

Know your target and what is beyond. That's it.

If you know your target then you won't be shooting any police (assuming you don't perceive the police as a threat).

Don't go out in the dark without a good flashlight, and light up anything suspicious before shooting at it.

I never understood the idea of shooting at something (a noise, motion, animal or person) that you cannot clearly identify and make the decison to shoot based on what you see.

The guy in this story is in big trouble.

LCP_Dogg wrote:Any LEOs want to share some advice (OTHER than "don't") for us Night Ninja types (I know I fall into this category at times)... Something we could wear or do maybe that won't get us shot (but might get us approached/questioned still).

I don't have any good answers for that one. That's one reason why I'm not a fan of the night ninja approach. I did enough of that stuff when it was my job, and it isn't any more. My personal policy is to stay inside where the tactical advantage is mine and let the LEO's manage the outside stuff. There's nothing outside my house worth dying for.

I recognize that this doesn't answer all needs. I live in a small town with a very responsive PD backed up by the sheriff's office. If you live on a ranch, LEO response is 45 minutes away, and someone is attempting to steal your vehicle or farm equipment, you might reasonably decide to intervene and have little likelihood that you'll be mistaken for a bad guy by the police who won't get there for quite a while. You'd still need to deal with the 360 degree threat environment, the bad guys' tactics, and the fact that if you get into trouble out there, it'll be quite some time before anyone arrives to give you a hand. So if you do decide to go outside - be awfully careful out there!

I will never understand the thinking that makes a person in a suburban environment want to run around outside their house as if they are chuck norris chasing down a criminal. A thought that never seems to occur to these heroes is that the hero next door, not realizing he is shooting a fellow hero, may decide to open fire on you. It is a pretty big step for an average citizen to take it upon themselves to become caped crusaders, utilizing all the skills they learned from reading really cool how-to books.

I could understand getting involved if you saw a person being raped or bludgeoned, but that typically isn't the case in these wild west vigilante style shootings. Most of the time it is just property issues.

03Lightningrocks wrote:I will never understand the thinking that makes a person in a suburban environment want to run around outside their house as if they are chuck norris chasing down a criminal. A thought that never seems to occur to these heroes is that the hero next door, not realizing he is shooting a fellow hero, may decide to open fire on you. It is a pretty big step for an average citizen to take it upon themselves to become caped crusaders, utilizing all the skills they learned from reading really cool how-to books.

I could understand getting involved if you saw a person being raped or bludgeoned, but that typically isn't the case in these wild west vigilante style shootings. Most of the time it is just property issues.

Well, I'll throw out a possible, rational (in my mind) scenario. My dog (who never barks unless someone is in his yard or within vision) started barking like crazy one night around 1 a.m. Now, do I call the police? Seems a little over the top. So, I grab the pistol and go out to investigate. Turned out it was a coon hanging on the side of our house (in the suburbs!) scared to death. But I could have walked out to find The Bad Guy(s). I wouldn't ever go outside to confront bad guys, but I will go outside to investigate strange noises and stuff. I guess someday, I could find that the noise was one that I should have called the police for. Any recommendations of some alternative action plan to take in situations like this?

SlowDave wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:I will never understand the thinking that makes a person in a suburban environment want to run around outside their house as if they are chuck norris chasing down a criminal. A thought that never seems to occur to these heroes is that the hero next door, not realizing he is shooting a fellow hero, may decide to open fire on you. It is a pretty big step for an average citizen to take it upon themselves to become caped crusaders, utilizing all the skills they learned from reading really cool how-to books.

I could understand getting involved if you saw a person being raped or bludgeoned, but that typically isn't the case in these wild west vigilante style shootings. Most of the time it is just property issues.

Well, I'll throw out a possible, rational (in my mind) scenario. My dog (who never barks unless someone is in his yard or within vision) started barking like crazy one night around 1 a.m. Now, do I call the police? Seems a little over the top. So, I grab the pistol and go out to investigate. Turned out it was a coon hanging on the side of our house (in the suburbs!) scared to death. But I could have walked out to find The Bad Guy(s). I wouldn't ever go outside to confront bad guys, but I will go outside to investigate strange noises and stuff. I guess someday, I could find that the noise was one that I should have called the police for. Any recommendations of some alternative action plan to take in situations like this?

You did lock the door behind you when you went outside to make sure an intruder couldn't slip in behind you, didn't you? I thought so. Good thing it was a raccoon.

Here are a couple of thoughts on the alternative action plan request:

If the noise is outside and can't be positively identified as a threat, your best course of action is to stay inside and monitor the situation. It will either develop into an identifiable threat with a clear set of options and you in a solid tactical position in a building interior you can effectively control, or it will fade away. There's seldom much of an immediate threat to your safety when a potential threat is still outside and you're inside. If a threat can be identified while it is still outside (either by sound or by going the low tech route of looking out your windows), it's time to call for the cavalry and take up an armed defensive position with preparations to safely stop an intrusion if it occurs.

If you go outside, you put yourself at high risk, severely complicate the situation for responding officers, and leave the rest of the family undefended inside. The recent tragic shooting of the newlywed who did this in Anaheim, CA serves as an excellent reminder of just how badly this can go. I don't see an upside to this tactic in a suburban environment, with the exception of a situation where a deadly attack on an innocent party is actually in progress outside and immediate intervention will make the difference between survival and severe injury or death for the victim.

Excaliber wrote: If the noise is outside and can't be positively identified as a threat, your best course of action is to stay inside and monitor the situation. It will either develop into an identifiable threat with a clear set of options and you in a solid tactical position in a building interior you can effectively control, or it will fade away. There's seldom much of an immediate threat to your safety when a potential threat is still outside and you're inside. If a threat can be identified while it is still outside (either by sound or by going the low tech route of looking out your windows), it's time to call for the cavalry and take up an armed defensive position with preparations to safely stop an intrusion if it occurs.

If you go outside, you put yourself at high risk, severely complicate the situation for responding officers, and leave the rest of the family undefended inside. The recent tragic shooting of the newlywed who did this in Anaheim, CA serves as an excellent reminder of just how badly this can go. I don't see an upside to this tactic in a suburban environment, with the exception of a situation where a deadly attack on an innocent party is actually in progress outside and immediate intervention will make the difference between survival and severe injury or death for the victim.

Or they can rob you blind of anything you have in your back yard! I will not let badguys have free run of my property just because it is dark.