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An 8-year-old boy in the small town of St. Johns, Arizona, is charged with the murder of his father and another man who was living in the house. Both men were shot with a .22 rifle, and the boy confessed to police shortly afterward. The event occurred Wednesday.

The boy will be charged with murder.

One aspect of this story that has come out is that the deceased father was an avid hunter and had sought advice from his parish priest about whether his son was too young to learn to shoot.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iG_n ... AD94B3I7G0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't need to tell y'all, this is bad.

- Jim

This is very strange. My son is 8, and currently playin Wii in the other room. I couldn't imagine, and I don't think he could either. something is defiantly wrong with this boy. The police suspect abuse, but there have to be details we don't know.

In most cases, we never really know what motivated people.

Maybe the boy was being abused, but it could be hard to prove after the fact. Maybe he is mentally ill.

- Jim

Interesting, in TX, children under 10 can't be charged with anything, even murder. Guess its not the same everywhere else.

The age at which minors can be certified as adults is all over the map, including no minimum.

The only hard limit that I'm aware of is the Supreme Court ruling that people who commit crimes under age 18 cannot be executed (Roper v. Simmons).

This incident occurred Wednesday, and it didn't hit the media until late Saturday. I can't explain that, other than it apparently happened in a small, remote town that was not on the radar of newspapers or TV stations.

The charge of murder at this stage suggests, in my uninformed humble opinion, that the DA is staking out a tough position that he will be able to compromise when more facts come out.

What we don't know far outweighs what has been reported so far.

- Jim

This is so disturbing and hard to comprehend. In one report said that friends and neighbors had never seen any signs of abuse, in fact, they said they saw them out in the yard playing base ball or football together many times. They were seen together all the time and at football games, public events, etc. The police said that the boy had planned the attack and it was not something that just happened on the spur of the moment. I don't know, but it is just hard to understand an 8yr old doing something like this.

-geo

My older son is 8 years old. I cannot imagine him planning and carrying out the murder of another human being, much less me. I am speechless.

I think they should quit worrying on how to punish the boy...and find out what drove him to kill 2 people!

I truly feel abuse of some sort will have played heavily in the kids decision..but I am an outsider looking in

All I can hope to do is pray hard enough that the pain and suffering everyone involved in this situation goes away quickly and then they can heal.

More information is trickling out.

According to prosecutors, the boy shot the victims four times each with a single-shot .22 caliber rifle.

Investigators have stated that they have found no evidence that the boy was abused.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/us/11child.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The boy's parents were divorced and had joint custody. Apparently the divorce was not amicable. The father made negative allegations about the mother's character and behavior in court papers.

The father had remarried earlier this year.

In general, the father seemed to be an honest, law-abiding, employed, church-going man.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/us/13 ... tml?ref=us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stor ... a0964.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now for the opinion and speculation:

How does a kid shoot two men four times each with a single-shot .22 rifle in close quarters?

I can see his blindsiding one man, but the other would then be, to put it mildly, very alarmed.

The only scenario that I can think of is that the shooter shot one man; and the other moved toward the shooter to grab the weapon, but was shot before he could do so.

BTW, I hope this incident puts the idea of the .22 as a "mouse gun" to rest permanently.

I said in my first message that this news is bad. Obviously every murder is bad. But now we have a case where someone used the ideal "starter" firearm to commit a double murder. It wasn't a repeater, much less a semi-auto. It wasn't an EBR or handgun.

- Jim

Those stories make you wonder if the ex-wife prodded the son in any way to do this.

stroo wrote:Those stories make you wonder if the ex-wife prodded the son in any way to do this.

Or did it herself and left him hanging.

*shudder*

I would think the police would dust the rifle for fingerprints and test the boy for powder residue. That would prove that the boy had fired the weapon.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:I would think the police would dust the rifle for fingerprints and test the boy for powder residue. That would prove that the boy had fired the weapon.

- Jim

Fingerprinting on guns isn't what TV makes it out to be. I've heard from forensics folks that pulling a good print off a gun is actually pretty rare, especially if it is maintained, making it inherently oily.

I had my van dusted after it was broken into. They had been all over the van, going as far as drinking a gatorade and a beer that I had left in the cooler in back from New Year's. They dusted the beer bottle and lots of other surfaces and got nothing, and only found one in the end... on the inside of the plexiglass vent window they busted into. Even that wasn't a good print. Also unlike the movies, they can't pull prints of most things. No paper, and nothing but smooth/shiny flat surfaces. Most of the officer's time was spent dusting my windows and paneling of my van. Very few of the interior surfaces were candidates for dusting.

Even if they did find the kid's prints on the gun, that only proves that he has handled it, which means nothing as he was instructed and allowed to use it. I still have trouble believing an 8 year old who had no indications of mental issues or other telling symptoms planned a double murder like this and carried it out with a single-shot rifle. It smells very fishy to me. I'm with stroo in my suspicions that he's a scapegoat, and there's more to this story.

seamusTX wrote:The only scenario that I can think of is that the shooter shot one man; and the other moved toward the shooter to grab the weapon, but was shot before he could do so.
- Jim

When I was much younger, a friend shot & killed himself with a .22 in the upstairs bedroom while some of us were sitting and talking downstairs. We were not being overly loud and we never heard a thing. His sister found him just after we left.

First of all, I'm sorry that you had to endure such a troubling event.

Was it a rifle or handgun? There's a huge difference in the sound level.

I can see not noticing a .22 rifle through a wall or two, or with a high enough level of background noise. I can't see missing one that is fired at you at short range.

Though if you're suggesting that the victims were shot in separate places, that is a possibility.

Very little has come out about this story since the initial report. I understand that it's a very hot issue in the town where it occurred. Now that I look, I see that a judge has issued a gag order:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... AD94HBPFG0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim