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Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:04 pm
by ELB
On another board, a poster asserted that when one renews his CHL in Texas, one must send the old one back to DPS, and further that one's current license can be suspended for not doing so. I am in askance of this, because I recently renewed mine (May-June 08, 35 days
), and the documentation that came with it said, as I recall, to destroy the old license. Again as I recall, my previous renewal four years ago had the same instructions, and I believe my wife's renewal back then was the same. I also recently renewed and upgraded my driver's license, and there I was also told to destroy the old one, as I was supposed to be in possession of only one driver's license at a time.
When I related my experience to the poster, he asserted that "the law is clear..."
, but did not provide a reference. Now the law is a mighty and extensive subject, but I poked around in the CHL statutes handbook provided by DPS, and didn't come up with anything one way or another.
This is somewhat of an academic question, since I long ago disposed of the old license, and to the best of my knowledge DPS has neither bothered me about the old nor suspended my current one
, but it does have my curiousity piqued.
Anyone here at the Oracle of CHL have the definitive bureaucratic (i.e. references to the law or DPS rule) answer? I would call DPS directly, but it is Sunday, and I don't want to disturb all those extra workers on OT pay who are processing CHLs to catch up...
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:52 pm
by amber
You only have to return your old license if you upgrade from NSA to SA.
ELB wrote:When I related my experience to the poster, he asserted that "the law is clear..."
, but did not provide a reference.
There's a reason he couldn't provide a reference.
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:45 pm
by Elvis
Sec. 411.187. SUSPENSION OF LICENSE. (a) A license may be suspended under this section if the license holder:
(1) is charged with the commission of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or of a felony under an information or indictment;
(2) fails to display a license as required by Section 411.205;
(3) fails to notify the department of a change of address or name as required by Section 411.181;
(4) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of this subchapter of a different category than the license holder is licensed to carry;
(5) fails to return a previously issued license after a license is modified as required by Section 411.184(d);
On a side note DPS has never suspended anyone for failing to return a previously issued license and this is not enforced...
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:28 pm
by bpet
Elvis wrote:Sec. 411.187. SUSPENSION OF LICENSE. (a) A license may be suspended under this section if the license holder:
(1) is charged with the commission of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or of a felony under an information or indictment;
(2) fails to display a license as required by Section 411.205;
(3) fails to notify the department of a change of address or name as required by Section 411.181;
(4) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of this subchapter of a different category than the license holder is licensed to carry;
(5) fails to return a previously issued license after a license is modified as required by Section 411.184(d);
On a side note DPS has never suspended anyone for failing to return a previously issued license and this is not enforced...
I think Elvis may have hit upon a potential point of confusion. It would appear that item (5) applies to only "modified" licenses (i.e. address corrections, name corrections. etc.) where they send a replacement license prior to the old license expiring. A renewal would be a "replacement" license and not a "modified" license IMO.
Perhaps this is confusing some people.
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:56 pm
by FlynJay
Just so there is absolutely no confusion, here is the section referenced in 411.187. So, you only have to return the license to DPS after obtaining a modified license. Otherwise you should just destroy it.
411.184. MODIFICATION. (a) To modify a license to allow a
license holder to carry a handgun of a diierent category than the
license indicates, the license holder must:
(1) complete a proficiency examination as provided by Section
411.188(e);
(2) obtain a handgun proficiency certificate under Section
411.189 not more than six months before the date of application for a
modified license; and
(3) submit to the department:
(A) an application for a modified license on a form provided by
the department;
(B) a copy of the handgun proficiency certificate;
(C) payment of a modified license fee of $25; and
(D) two recent color passport photographs of the license
holder, except that an applicant who is younger than 21 years of age
must submit two recent color passport photographs in profile of the
applicant.
(b) The director by rule shall adopt a modified license application
form requiring an update of the information on the original completed
application.
(c) The department may modify the license of a license holder who
meets all the eligibility requirements and submits all the modification
materials. Not later than the 45th day after receipt of the modification
materials, the department shall issue the modified license or notify the
license holder in writing that the modified license application was
denied.
(d) On receipt of a modified license, the license holder shall return
the previously issued license to the department.
(e) A license holder whose application fee for a modified license
under this section is dishonored or reversed may reapply for a modified
license at any time, provided the application fee and a dishonored
payment charge of $25 is paid by cashier's check or money order
made payable to the "Texas Department of Public Safety."
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:38 pm
by ELB
Aha! I knew somebody here knew where to look. Thus it is, that the only point in time where a return is necessary is when changing from the non-semi-auto to semi-auto categories. (or vice-versa, I suppose, but who would do that?)
As a point of reference, I once updated my address, in a timely fashion of course, and the documentation that came with the replacement CHL also directed me just to destory the old license, not return it.
Thanks all.
elb
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:37 pm
by ac-mech
Any change on this? i was told in my renewal class to return my old expired license...
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:59 pm
by apostate
No change AFAIK and, as mentioned, a modified license has a specific meaning per GC §411.184.
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:00 pm
by ScottDLS
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:21 pm
by TDDude
ac-mech wrote:Any change on this? i was told in my renewal class to return my old expired license...
An expired license is exactly that, expired and not any good to anyone except it would be a really devastating way to steal someone's identity.
The reason they want a modified license back is because it's still good and we are only allowed to have one. That way if it's ever legally taken away, we can't just go to the back of our wallet and pull out the next one in line. I'm sure the same law applies to a driver's license.
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:27 pm
by Toadstone
I hate to resurrect an old thread, but I don't want everyone to have to go over the same information again, either. Actually, I'm going to be discussing a "modified" license, not an expired one.
I recently moved and had my address changed on my CHL. After reading the advice in this thread, I knew I should send the old license (which expires in 2014) back to TX DPS. When I called them just now to find out where exactly I should mail it to, the lady said ,"You can just go ahead and destroy it yourself."
Uhh, okay, I guess. I wish I had a letter from her saying that that is the case, considering that the law says I should send it in. I think the state needs to pick a standard and stick to it.
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:30 pm
by Texgun
I think their standard practice is already published. I would send the old license to DPS and avoid any he said-she said situation.
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:32 pm
by raptor
Toadstone wrote:I hate to resurrect an old thread, but I don't want everyone to have to go over the same information again, either. Actually, I'm going to be discussing a "modified" license, not an expired one.
I recently moved and had my address changed on my CHL. After reading the advice in this thread, I knew I should send the old license (which expires in 2014) back to TX DPS. When I called them just now to find out where exactly I should mail it to, the lady said ,"You can just go ahead and destroy it yourself."
Uhh, okay, I guess. I wish I had a letter from her saying that that is the case, considering that the law says I should send it in. I think the state needs to pick a standard and stick to it.
That's not a modified license. That's a duplicate license.
A modified license is when you can carry a handgun of a different category. (411.184)
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:04 pm
by Afff_667
My pin-head instructor for renewal last month really emphasized that we were to return our expired license to Tx DPS upon receipt of the renewal. I, too, looked on the DPS web site for an address since there was no return info in the envelope with my license received Wednesday. I e-mailed DPS using the Customer Service link on the CHL page and received a response within 30 minutes that instructed me to destroy the expired license.
I shredded it, shuffled up the strips and bits, and then deposited rougly equal amounts in four different trash cans in four widely different locations.
Re: Bureaucratic Trivia -- Disposal of Expired CHL?
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:07 pm
by sjfcontrol
Afff_667 wrote:
I shredded it, shuffled up the strips and bits, and then deposited rougly equal amounts in four different trash cans in four widely different locations.
For security purposes, you should have burned the bits, then spread the ashes in at least three different oceans!
