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Am I correct in understanding that the signs at the entrance to Katy Mills mall are invalid? They cite an incorrect statute, which doesn't appear to comply with the Texas Penal Code 30.06.


Texas 30.06 states the following:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

However the sign at the entrance to Katy Mills says the following:
Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Article 4413 (29ee), Revised Statutes (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun.

I think you are correct. In addition to that, their placement off to the sides of the vestibule which is about 25 feet wide makes it hard to spot if you don't happen to be looking that way already.

My CHL instructor (a City of Katy employee) that I had for my renewal class a couple of weeks ago thinks they are not binding due to placement. He also states tthat the Katy PD officers he's talked to about it agree and they say they wouldn't do anything about it to the CHL'er. I guess this means that if outed by mall and Katy PD gets called, the officer would give the subject CHL'er a chance to just leave.

Grapevine Mills in the DFW area is not posted properly either. I believe their signs are from the old statute. HOWEVER, we have been advised that the Grapevine PD believes it IS properly posted and will arrest you if discovered. In the long run, you may beat the rap, but you'll still take a ride.

pretty expensive Taxi too I hear.

Keith - I guess reading comprehension isn't a pre-requisite for Grapevine PD? That's crazy - and what you've posted is what my instructor (Crossfire) mentioned as well. I live in Grapevine, trust me, I really thought our PD had more going on upstairs, maybe it's a directive from the brass. I'm not slamming the GV cops, but it seems pretty simple, if the law says "it has to be EXACTLY this" and then the sign is "not EXACTLY this" then it seems like a no-brainer. And no, I'm not looking to be the test case!

Keith B wrote:Grapevine Mills in the DFW area is not posted properly either. I believe their signs are from the old statute. HOWEVER, we have been advised that the Grapevine PD believes it IS properly posted and will arrest you if discovered. In the long run, you may beat the rap, but you'll still take a ride.

This is the sort of NONSENSE our pro-CHL representatives in government are supposed to be looking out for - but don't...

What point is there, in time and treasure spent on obtaining a CHL, if those with badges can arbitrarily ignore the law and cart us off to jail - when we've broken no law?

I'm sure those that observe "you may beat the rap, but not the ride" agree this tactic is intimidation of the worst sort. Why are LEO's in various locations allowed to ignore facts? Especially when advised that proper signage is meaningful? When their response is "we don't care if the CHLer is in the right - he's coming with us" they are deliberately, knowingly in the wrong and do it anyway.

CHLers work diligentlyto make certain THEY conform to the letter of the law when it comes to where and when they can carry, but various LEO's STILL thwart this law. It's outrageous!

I hope someday, some well to do CHLer takes these law breakers to court and blows their doors off!

Maybe, once such a precedent is established, this nonsense will cease.

If the signs are not in legal wording, and the officer makes the arrest, Can the officer claim immunity? In other words, would the arresting officer be civilly libel for false/improper arrest? SInce the DA office is immune for accepting charges, would the officer be responsible?

G Wagner wrote:If the signs are not in legal wording, and the officer makes the arrest, Can the officer claim immunity? In other words, would the arresting officer be civilly libel for false/improper arrest? SInce the DA office is immune for accepting charges, would the officer be responsible?

IANAL, so not sure about the ramifications and false arrest charge sticking, but would think it would be possible. However, since there is no test case like this to set precedence, the person would have to be willing to spend the time and money to beat it. IMO, I would rather not spend my time/money in the mall and go somewhere else. Haven't been able to convince my wife and daughter to stay away form that mall. However, I have a great excuse to not have to go shopping with them!!

Keith B wrote:Grapevine Mills in the DFW area is not posted properly either. I believe their signs are from the old statute. HOWEVER, we have been advised that the Grapevine PD believes it IS properly posted and will arrest you if discovered. In the long run, you may beat the rap, but you'll still take a ride.

A good reason to carry concealed, then! Seriously: The chances of being stopped by Grapevine PD while carrying (legally) is slim to none. I'll take the risk of being placed under arrest for bad signage any day over not protecting my family.

kahrfreak wrote:

Keith B wrote:Grapevine Mills in the DFW area is not posted properly either. I believe their signs are from the old statute. HOWEVER, we have been advised that the Grapevine PD believes it IS properly posted and will arrest you if discovered. In the long run, you may beat the rap, but you'll still take a ride.

A good reason to carry concealed, then! Seriously: The chances of being stopped by Grapevine PD while carrying (legally) is slim to none. I'll take the risk of being placed under arrest for bad signage any day over not protecting my family.

How you fixed for cash/disposable income?

I look at the number of people killed (or injured) by criminals in Texas and the number of people convicted (or arrested) for 30.06 violations and I know which one I think is a greater danger. Other people may have different concerns.

But either way I think the best answer is go somewhere else. I doesn't matter if the "No Guns" signs are not legal, just like it doesn't matter if a "No Blacks" or "No Jews" sign is not legal. Either way I take my money somewhere else. Especially in this economy.