TexasCHLforum.com

This is not exactly a CHL question but it is a question on legality, so moderator please feel free to move it. Apologies if it is in the wrong place. That said, here goes!

I read a post in another forum that it is legal to send a handgun by common carrier (UPS, FedEx) intrastate. The logic was that it would be the same as a ftf transaction. Nothing crosses state lines therefore it is legal. The poster claimed to be a retired BATFE agent.

Can anyone confirm that this is true?

Thanks,
Joel

It is legal to ship a handgun to another resident of Texas. However, Fedex and UPS will accept shipments from unlicensed individuals only to licensed dealers or manufacturers.

At last report, Lone Star Overnight would ship between individuals in the state and charged much less than the other two.

- Jim

Yes, intrastate.

seamusTX wrote:However, Fedex and UPS will accept shipments from unlicensed individuals only to licensed dealers or manufacturers.

I was under the impression that this rule only applied to out-of-state shipments.

I recently shipped a handgun to an individual in Austin via UPS 3-day air. Not sure if it was part of their "terms of service" but the agent said that 3-day was sufficient. Because of the vicinity of Austin to Houston, the gun arrived the next day, actually. But shipping 3-day instead of overnight made the shipping $23 instead of $60. Just have to make sure the recipient is legally able to own a handgun.

You know, I wonder if anything would happen if you just boxed up the gun and sent it. In my experience the agents don't ask if there are firearms in the box, only explosives, flamables or biologic materials. Sometimes not even the latter. Is the sender under any obligation to declare that he is shipping a firearm, intra-state that is?

WEC wrote:

seamusTX wrote:However, Fedex and UPS will accept shipments from unlicensed individuals only to licensed dealers or manufacturers.

I was under the impression that this rule only applied to out-of-state shipments.

I've heard it the other way. I don't know from personal experience. I always use an FFL because it's cheaper.

One thing is for sure: UPS and Fedex employees often don't know their own rules.

Gyrogearhead wrote:You know, I wonder if anything would happen if you just boxed up the gun and sent it.

I don't know if it's illegal to do so.

Some of the speculation that I've read is that (a) they wouldn't pay for it if it was undeclared and they lost it, and (b) if they somehow found out it was an undeclared firearm, they might call the cops about it -- probably BATFE.

I've never heard of either of those things actually happening.

- Jim

If you ship a firearm, you have to declare it. It's one of the Federal rules, even if shipping in state.

flb_78 wrote:If you ship a firearm, you have to declare it. It's one of the Federal rules, even if shipping in state.

That's a pretty cool website!

flb_78 wrote:If you ship a firearm, you have to declare it. It's one of the Federal rules, even if shipping in state.

What am I missing?

All I can find on this topic is 18 USC 922(e):

It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped;

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:

flb_78 wrote:If you ship a firearm, you have to declare it. It's one of the Federal rules, even if shipping in state.

What am I missing?

All I can find on this topic is 18 USC 922(e):

It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped;

- Jim

Look on the U.S.P.S. website. There's a lot of info there about shipping guns through the mail.

I just recently shipped a handgun back to the manufacturer for some repair work. This was an interstate shipment though (which can only be done to an FFL or a manufacturer, afaik). I checked with UPS, FedEx, and Lonestar to make sure I was in compliance. Lonestar told me they will not ship handgun. Both UPS and FedEx will ship them but there are some rules. In both cases they have to be shipped priority overnight (not sure why). For UPS, you have to go to a UPS facility (not a mailboxes etc., or UPS store). You have to tell the person at the counter that the package contains a handgun. For FedEx, you can have a driver pick up the package, but you have to tell the driver the package contains a handgun. They flag the package in their system as such. My driver knew the policy so there was not an issue.

I do not know if these rules are simply company policy, or federal regulation. You may be able to intrastate ship to an individual, but I doubt the shipping policies change.

A friend of mine suggested taking the slide off and shipping the parts in two separate boxes. The regulations do not apply to gun "parts". Shipping two boxes UPS ground is a lot cheaper than one overnight.

Dave

Dave01 wrote: A friend of mine suggested taking the slide off and shipping the parts in two separate boxes. The regulations do not apply to gun "parts". Shipping two boxes UPS ground is a lot cheaper than one overnight.

The frame is considered the "gun" according to federal law. You can ship a slide to anyone you want, but the frame would still be under the federal shipping restrictions.

Brian

I wonder if there is some reason for all this besides just to aggrivate ligitimate gun owners?

I've shipped lots of small mechanical devices and parts with no trouble and no questions asked all over the world. If you announce to one and all that there's a gun in here then in my humble opinion you are asking for it to be stolen.

Understand, I've never sent a gun anywhere nor received one via common carrier so my real world experience is limited. But I can't imagine a criminal following all these shipping rules if they want to get a gun from here to there. Just pack it, ship it and if it gets there, great! If it doesn't, then get another gun and repeat.

It just seems like another case of people who are overly concerned with rules making a few too many.

Just my 2c worth.

flb_78 wrote:If you ship a firearm, you have to declare it. It's one of the Federal rules, even if shipping in state.

Cite please.

From the FAQ on the ATF website:
*******************
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
******************

In the FAQ it makes it sound like you must declare it even for shipments within your own state, but I just read each of the cited sections of federal law and they all reference the notification requirement specifically in regard to interstate or foreign shipments.