Courthouse is off limits in its entirety
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:34 am
Some of us were at crossed purposes in the topic 'CUFFED AND STUFFED'. We were wandering off the main topic of the OP and discussing carrying in a courthouse instead. Thought it might be clearer and more respectful of the OP to just make it a seperate topic. I know it has been discussed elsewhere but seems to have not been resolved. Here is a recent post:..
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by wgoforth » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:40 pm
CWOOD, There has been disagreement in other threads as to whether it is the courtroom only or the entire courthouse, even when we are talking such things as a County Extension Office or Voters registration. Each seems to feel there is not question, but few seem willing to be the test case <g>. The problem seems to be that PC 46.03-06 says building or PORTION of building. So, is the court ONLY the portion in which the court itself is, or the entire building? If you would like to revisit that discussion, check out view topic...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a post in the thread which wgoforth referenced:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by joe817 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:32 pm
It's actually in PC 46.03:
"Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1)....
(2)....
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court...
.
.
.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035."
Going to 46.035:
"(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area."
So the entire courthouse is off limits for carry.
Hope that helps.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
joe817 has it exactly correct. The law was changed two legislative sessions ago to add the word premisis to PC 46.03. There was much discussion at the time that this would exclude the entire courthouse. By using the word 'premisis', just like in a school, it includes the entire building even if only a small portion of the building includes a court or offices of a court.
Don't let what we wish were the case cloud our judgement about what the plain English of the law in this case says. Would you think it is OK to carry in the the nurses office or the concession area of a school just because these are not classrooms? Of course not. It is all in the same premisis. Same with a courthouse. Just because you are at the tax office does not make it any less part of the premisis.
Perhaps some are thinking about how it ONCE was. You COULD go to the tax office while carrying, but when the word premisis was added with its definition, that part of our world change.
If it is posed as a selection between 'building' or 'portion of a building' what do you think the prosecutor will choose. Actually, it isn't a choice. The law includes BOTH. We don't get to choose.
Be careful out there.
Regards
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by wgoforth » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:40 pm
CWOOD, There has been disagreement in other threads as to whether it is the courtroom only or the entire courthouse, even when we are talking such things as a County Extension Office or Voters registration. Each seems to feel there is not question, but few seem willing to be the test case <g>. The problem seems to be that PC 46.03-06 says building or PORTION of building. So, is the court ONLY the portion in which the court itself is, or the entire building? If you would like to revisit that discussion, check out view topic...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a post in the thread which wgoforth referenced:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by joe817 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:32 pm
It's actually in PC 46.03:
"Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1)....
(2)....
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court...
.
.
.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035."
Going to 46.035:
"(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area."
So the entire courthouse is off limits for carry.
Hope that helps.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
joe817 has it exactly correct. The law was changed two legislative sessions ago to add the word premisis to PC 46.03. There was much discussion at the time that this would exclude the entire courthouse. By using the word 'premisis', just like in a school, it includes the entire building even if only a small portion of the building includes a court or offices of a court.
Don't let what we wish were the case cloud our judgement about what the plain English of the law in this case says. Would you think it is OK to carry in the the nurses office or the concession area of a school just because these are not classrooms? Of course not. It is all in the same premisis. Same with a courthouse. Just because you are at the tax office does not make it any less part of the premisis.
Perhaps some are thinking about how it ONCE was. You COULD go to the tax office while carrying, but when the word premisis was added with its definition, that part of our world change.
If it is posed as a selection between 'building' or 'portion of a building' what do you think the prosecutor will choose. Actually, it isn't a choice. The law includes BOTH. We don't get to choose.
Be careful out there.
Regards