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So I'm reading my Sportsmans Guide, and I stumble upon this: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=544259" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which got me asking myself...

How can you buy the 11.5"? Isn't that an NFA item? And you can't just go and buy an NFA items without paperwork beforehand...right?

Which led me to question AR Pistols. Aren't those SBRs?

Now, I understand that there are some goofy ways in which a pistol can become a rifle, but not back to pistol (or something goofy like that). I'm just looking for some clarification...

I'm no expert, but I believe the AR pistols are considered pistols and not rifles (or short-barreled rifles) by BATFE because they have no buttstock (there is a buffer extension tube, buffer spring etc., but no stock). Once an AR lower is used as a pistol, it must always be a pistol or something like that? I get confused on that one.

As for 11.5-inch barrel uppers placed on rifle/carbine lowers, yes as I understand it you would have to have NFA tax stamp for that.

The guy who runs this gun shop in Cedar Park http://www.texasgunstore.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; really knows this stuff. Forget his name - David, maybe? But give him a call and he can probably explain it all to you. Might even be your best bet for acquiring this type of gun, but to get the tax stamp I think you have to have the pre-approval of the police chief or sheriff in your area. If I remember San Antonio politics well, getting SAPD chief to sign off on this might not be easy.

pbwalker wrote:So I'm reading my Sportsmans Guide, and I stumble upon this: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=544259" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which got me asking myself...

How can you buy the 11.5"? Isn't that an NFA item? And you can't just go and buy an NFA items without paperwork beforehand...right?

Which led me to question AR Pistols. Aren't those SBRs?

Now, I understand that there are some goofy ways in which a pistol can become a rifle, but not back to pistol (or something goofy like that). I'm just looking for some clarification...

In order to mount the 11.5" upper to a lower legally, the lower must either be a pistol lower or registered as an SBR. Technically the AR-15 lower is the firearm, so the upper does not require special paperwork to purchase. There has been some legal precedent that having a short-barreled upper in the same vicinity as a non-SBR lower could be construed as "intent to construct an illegal SBR" and result in federal prison time. The process to register a lower as an SBR is somewhat complicated, and explaining it would be the same. If you're really interested then it's a long road to comprehension and completion. But once you do, you can play with some fun toys like:

pbwalker wrote:Which led me to question AR Pistols. Aren't those SBRs?

Nope. They're pistols, same as a Browning Hi-Power. Until you put a reproduction of one of these on it.

Along these lines, I saw an ad and was wondering what the ATF would do. PSE now makes a crossbow upper that will fit any stock AR lower. I knew that if it was first built as a pistol, the lower was considered a pistol, and if it was first built as a rifle, it was always a rifle. I also know the ATF considers the frame to be the firearm.

But what if I buy an AR lower for the sole and express purpose of putting a cross bow on it. Is it not a firearm now, or what?

PSE website for one version: http://www.pse-archery.com/prod.php?k=55444&u=1135" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As said above, it is the lower of an AR15 that is the 'firearm'. You can buy uppers of any length all day long online, no problem. Merchants can sell you them all day long, as they are not firearms, they are 'parts'.

As soon as you mount it to the lower (or even get it close, as mentioned above) you now have a SBR, which, unless you have a tax stamp for it, is illegal.

Are there probably thousands of SBRs out there that have had parts legally obtained, but illegally assembled, either due to lack of knowledge that it's illegal, or lack of wanting to inform the fed?
Probably so.
Doesn't make it any less illegal.

srothstein wrote:But what if I buy an AR lower for the sole and express purpose of putting a cross bow on it. Is it not a firearm now, or what?

According to BATFE it would probably still be a firearm. After all, a stripped lower is a firearm according to BATFE.