TexasCHLforum.com

This has probably been discussed to death and I have made a reasonable attempt to better understand this but... yesterday, I had to pick up one of the grandkids at school. I noticed a sign at the entrance to the circular drive to the school pickup zone. It sure seemed to be a real 30.06 but what's not clear to me is whether it's valid in this setting or not.

I recall from my CHL class, that CHL holders could legally carry in the school parking lot, pickup zones, etc. but not in the school building itself.

Here's the sign (sorry it's blurry) and I have confirmed the language, size, etc. seems valid. So my question is: does this make it a violation of law to pass beyond this sign while carrying?

Quahog wrote:but not in the school building itself.

I remember this exact thing, in class and also many times on this forum.
So I would have to believe that the sign itself is valid, but only pertains to the buildings and not the parking / pickup areas.

You sure picked a touchy subject so early in the morning.

There are some that say since the schools are funded by the government that they are a government facility and therefore, theoretically, can not be posted. However, the code specifically states that we cannot carry there. It was my understanding that they could post 30.06 signs at the entrances to their parking lots and the would be enforceable. It was also my understanding that they would do this to keeping the teachers from bringing their weapons to school and leaving them in their vehicles. And I think this was all before it was made clear that we could carry our weapons with us when picking up and dropping off our kids.

My own opinion about this sign in this location is that it is legal and enforceable and very disappointing!
I would not carry here. I highly doubt that an LEO would see things my way if I were ever discovered and that would cost me big bucks to straighten things out if I even could. BTW, other than my own child, not one other person at the school or parent knows I even have a CHL.

C-dub wrote:You sure picked a touchy subject so early in the morning.

There are some that say since the schools are funded by the government that they are a government facility and therefore, theoretically, can not be posted. However, the code specifically states that we cannot carry there. It was my understanding that they could post 30.06 signs at the entrances to their parking lots and the would be enforceable. It was also my understanding that they would do this to keeping the teachers from bringing their weapons to school and leaving them in their vehicles. And I think this was all before it was made clear that we could carry our weapons with us when picking up and dropping off our kids.

My own opinion about this sign in this location is that it is legal and enforceable and very disappointing!
I would not carry here. I highly doubt that an LEO would see things my way if I were ever discovered and that would cost me big bucks to straighten things out if I even could. BTW, other than my own child, not one other person at the school or parent knows I even have a CHL.

Seriously, morning is when I have clarity of thought so I posted. I wasn't trying to ruin anyone's morning coffee.

C-dub, everything you said is how I see it too. Even after reviewing handgunlaw.us, etc., I am still not clear.

It bites because I often drop off the child then run an errand or two and I don't want to leave my carry behind if I don't have to.

I am short on time so I will be brief.

Read PC30.06(e) "It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

"Exception to the application" means that the law cannot be applied under the following circumstances.

If you school is a private institution the sign is valid and enforceable. If your school is part of a governmental entity it is not.

Hope this helps clarify.

The problem with that CWood is that schools are not government entities. They are merely funded by the government. ISD's are completely separate from local and state governments. The property isn't owned or leased by either of those, but rather the ISD.

C-dub wrote:The problem with that CWood is that schools are not government entities. They are merely funded by the government. ISD's are completely separate from local and state governments. The property isn't owned or leased by either of those, but rather the ISD.

An ISD is a subdivision of the state, has taxing authority, has governmental privileges when contracting, officials chosen by election, can issue public bonds, etc. If that isn't a government entity, I'm not sure what is.

C-dub wrote:The problem with that CWood is that schools are not government entities. They are merely funded by the government. ISD's are completely separate from local and state governments. The property isn't owned or leased by either of those, but rather the ISD.

If it has a School Board that is elected by the public and sets a tax rate that is collected by the county then it is indeed a government entity.

ScottDLS wrote:

C-dub wrote:The problem with that CWood is that schools are not government entities. They are merely funded by the government. ISD's are completely separate from local and state governments. The property isn't owned or leased by either of those, but rather the ISD.

An ISD is a subdivision of the state, has taxing authority, has governmental privileges when contracting, officials chosen by election, can issue public bonds, etc. If that isn't a government entity, I'm not sure what is.

As long as the CW remains concealed and in the vehicle, it is concealed and in your motor vehicle for your protection (MPA). Incidentally, that's just my non-legal and non-binding understanding.

It's kinda' like your CW being in your car at the drive by mail drop at the Post office, IMO.

OTOH, what do I know?

Oldgringo wrote:As long as the CW remains concealed and in the vehicle, it is concealed and in your motor vehicle for your protection (MPA). Incidentally, that's just my non-legal and non-binding understanding.

It's kinda' like your CW being in your car at the drive by mail drop at the Post office, IMO.

OTOH, what do I know?

MPA is not legal for carry onto school property (both GFSZ and state statutes), but CHL is.

As for the signs, there has been a lot of debate, but best interpretation is they are not valid. HOWEVER, both the Webster and Plano school districts have supposedly made statements that they feel they ARE valid (hence the legal sized signs), so it goes back to that 'You may beat the rap, but not the ride' thing if you are discovered carrying past them.

Just a thought:

And what about the Federal "within 1,000' except on your own property" prohibition?

Keith B wrote:MPA is not legal for carry onto school property (both GFSZ and state statutes), but CHL is.

As for the signs, there has been a lot of debate, but best interpretation is they are not valid. HOWEVER, both the Webster and Plano school districts have supposedly made statements that they feel they ARE valid (hence the legal sized signs), so it goes back to that 'You may beat the rap, but not the ride' thing if you are discovered carrying past them.

This may be a case of "better safe than sorry"... in all likelihood, no one would ever know but Murphy's Law says I'd be turning out of the lot and get stopped for something really dumb like a burnt tail light.

JNMAR wrote:Just a thought:

And what about the Federal "within 1,000' except on your own property" prohibition?

CHL is exempt.

The school districts think they can post and enforce and it has not been decided in court, the only solutions are a test case or legislative relief.

A public school cannot post a binding 30.06 sign. The law is specific on what a school "Premises" is and that is a building.

MPA does not apply to a CHL holder in any instance that I know of ... yet.

It doesn't matter what a "school" thinks. They have to follow the law just like everybody else. I would hope any CHL arrested because of one of these signs would take so much money from the town and school in damages that every one of these little tyrant groups understands they can't play this game. 30.06 have nothing to do with a public school.