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Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the car
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:43 pm
by Beiruty
Let us say one is carrying with valid CHL and wanted to disarm before entering the premises (building) of a public school.
Is it permissible to leave the firearm in the car in parking lot of public school? Isn't a Technical Federal Violation? I mean once you are inside the building you are not "in control" of your firearm. Have anyone considered this case?
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:03 pm
by 03Lightningrocks
Who really cares anyway? I would leave it under my seat, lock the door, set the alarm.... and go in and see what my kid had done wrong this time...LOL. My kids are grown now, so it is easy for me to talk tough. But seriously.... is there some kind of psychic phenomenon I don't know about going on? There seems to be a lot of folks worried about getting outed with a gun under the seat or caught carrying past a gun busters sign or just plain being outed? Concealed means nobody knows you have it. I would look at it this way. Does anyone know how much change you have in your pocket? NO!!!!! Why???? Because they can't see through your cloths and they can't read your mind. Just some random thoughts. Metal detectors or stupidity are the only two ways anyone knows you have a gun on you. It isn't one of those things that just shows up on your face.
Then again.... you could always find some bushes just off school property and stash your gun there until your done at the school.
Disclaimer! I am in no way saying anyone should break any law. I am simply sharing some random thoughts that I have had on occasion. Like in a Post Office.... for instance.
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:25 pm
by surprise_i'm_armed
Beiruty:
As I understand your question the answer is this:
Under the Federal GFSZA (Gun Free School Zone Act), guns are
not allowed on school property (parking lots or buildings) UNLESS
the gunowner has a CHL from the state in which the school is located.
Since you have a CHL, you can leave it in the car legally. You still
can't take it into the building, or to a school game, or to a school event
on the grounds.
For those parents who carry a gun under MPA (Motorists Protection Act),
but who do not have a CHL, they are technically breaking the federal law if they
bring a gun onto the school property (parking lot or building).
It is unlikely that a parent who was not a CHL would be discovered, unless
some other criminal activity drew the LEO's attention.
IANAL. YMMV.
SIA
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:09 am
by 03Lightningrocks
surprise_i'm_armed wrote:Beiruty:
As I understand your question the answer is this:
Under the Federal GFSZA (Gun Free School Zone Act), guns are
not allowed on school property (parking lots or buildings) UNLESS
the gunowner has a CHL from the state in which the school is located.
Since you have a CHL, you can leave it in the car legally. You still
can't take it into the building, or to a school game, or to a school event
on the grounds.
For those parents who carry a gun under MPA (Motorists Protection Act),
but who do not have a CHL, they are technically breaking the federal law if they
bring a gun onto the school property (parking lot or building).
It is unlikely that a parent who was not a CHL would be discovered, unless
some other criminal activity drew the LEO's attention.
IANAL. YMMV.
SIA
I have just been edumacated..... good info.
One of these days I should probably read the rules.... nah... just kidding. I would do what I want anyway.
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 7:05 am
by sjfcontrol
03Lightningrocks wrote:But seriously.... is there some kind of psychic phenomenon I don't know about going on? There seems to be a lot of folks worried about getting outed with a gun under the seat or caught carrying past a gun busters sign or just plain being outed?
Haven't there been some problems with guns being found in cars on school property via dog searches? In fact, one was by a student who had been hunting, and had left the firearm in the car parked OFF the school property.
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:23 am
by 03Lightningrocks
sjfcontrol wrote:03Lightningrocks wrote:But seriously.... is there some kind of psychic phenomenon I don't know about going on? There seems to be a lot of folks worried about getting outed with a gun under the seat or caught carrying past a gun busters sign or just plain being outed?
Haven't there been some problems with guns being found in cars on school property via dog searches? In fact, one was by a student who had been hunting, and had left the firearm in the car parked OFF the school property.
Not that I know of. I didn't know a dog could sniff out a metal gun from all the other metal the car is made out of. That must be one real special dog.
Maybe he smelled drugs and the gun got discovered while they were checking for drugs. I know for sure I have never heard of any parent getting searched while simply picking up their child. That is truly a bit paranoid.
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:30 am
by 03Lightningrocks
I have a question. If any of you folks have ever been speeding down the freeway at 80 MPH and then you take your exit. You work your way through town doing the speed limit. Then acop pulls up beside you. How many of you are worried he knows you were doing 80 on the freeway 20 minutes earlier?
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:37 am
by sjfcontrol
03Lightningrocks wrote:sjfcontrol wrote:03Lightningrocks wrote:But seriously.... is there some kind of psychic phenomenon I don't know about going on? There seems to be a lot of folks worried about getting outed with a gun under the seat or caught carrying past a gun busters sign or just plain being outed?
Haven't there been some problems with guns being found in cars on school property via dog searches? In fact, one was by a student who had been hunting, and had left the firearm in the car parked OFF the school property.
Not that I know of. I didn't know a dog could sniff out a metal gun from all the other metal the car is made out of. That must be one real special dog.
Maybe he smelled drugs and the gun got discovered while they were checking for drugs. I know for sure I have never heard of any parent getting searched while simply picking up their child. That is truly a bit paranoid.
I suspect he smelled the burned powder -- not the gun itself. (Or maybe the dog alerted on the smell of Hoppes?) They did find a gun in a student's car parked off-campus. As I recall, it was a dog that found it. If there had been drugs, that would have been a big part of the story. I'm sure they weren't breaking into cars at random looking for guns. The boy was eventually allowed to return to school.
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:41 am
by threoh8
Some dogs are trained to sniff out explosives and might hit on very small amounts of powder residue.
I suppose a dog could be trained for detecting typical gun lubes, as well.
IIRC, the federal "Gun Free School Zone" extends 1000 feet from the property, not just to the parking lot.
Just driving through the area a block or two over from the school with a pistol (and no CHL) is a violation.
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:42 am
by sjfcontrol
I found the story.
Here's the link...
http://community.livejournal.com/ontd_p ... 44491.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Note the paragraph...
Later, as private security guards performed a perimeter search, a gun-sniffing dog alerted to his vehicle. Tudesko was called out of class to open his truck.
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:19 am
by ddstuder
sjfcontrol wrote:I found the story.
Here's the link...
http://community.livejournal.com/ontd_p ... 44491.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Note the paragraph...
Later, as private security guards performed a perimeter search, a gun-sniffing dog alerted to his vehicle. Tudesko was called out of class to open his truck.
Since his vehicle was not on school property, he should not have opened his truck for them. Call the cops and make them get a search warrant!
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:32 am
by sjfcontrol
Yeah -- that wasn't exactly the point.
My point was that apparently there are dogs that can sniff out guns (or power, or Hoppes, or something). If you've got a gun in the car, it is possible for the authorities to find that gun through no action of your own. I wasn't trying to open up the discussion to the legal ramifications of that particular case, or the implications of the Federal Gun-Free-Zone stuff.
I was responding to 03lightingrocks who said:
Who really cares anyway? I would leave it under my seat, lock the door, set the alarm....
Not a real good idea if they can find it while you're gone. You may have a greeting committee waiting when you return.
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:45 am
by tiger1873
threoh8 wrote:
IIRC, the federal "Gun Free School Zone" extends 1000 feet from the property, not just to the parking lot.
Just driving through the area a block or two over from the school with a pistol (and no CHL) is a violation.
I almost guarantee you that any police officer could find a law you were technically breaking anytime they stop you. I am not only talking about guns but how many people carry prescription drugs not in the original container. That could carry a drug charge if your not careful. 99.9% of police officers are reasonable and will not arrest people for technical violations. In the past I have talked to Police Officers and even people working some DA's offices. They all say the same thing. What would they or a reasonable person do in the situation at hand. That goes for all laws. Of course you always run the risk of getting a officer and DA who has a chip on their shoulder and wants to ruin your day.
In Texas it is very common to have a gun in the car CHL or not. If you take measures to have the gun locked up you most likely will not have any problems. What matters here is case law. Has anyone ever been charged in Texas for leaving a gun in locked car in a school parking lot. Many people carry guns in their car even without a CHL if you have one it only makes it harder for a case to stick. Bottom line is keep it locked up. Look at getting something made for gun storage in a car you can buy them for under $50 if you look around it can go a long way if you car is every broken into and the gun is stolen you took an extra step to secure the firearm.
Even the article about the teen with the gun didn't get charges plus this was in California not Texas.
Criminal statutes prohibit guns within 1,000 feet of a school, he said. But police opted not to file charges against Tudesko, believing he had no criminal intent, and school officials have no authority to enforce criminal laws, the lawyer argued.
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:32 am
by sjfcontrol
Again, my only point in bringing up that case, was to point out that they can detect the firearm in the vehicle if they desire to do so. If you leave the gun hidden in the car, you might be caught in a canine parking lot sweep. (Or surrounding neighborhood sweep.) Matters not if in California, or Texas, or Alaska for that matter. Just be aware that it can happen.
Re: Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:03 am
by gigag04
You guys decide - here is a snippet from 18 USC 922:
(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess
a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or
foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable
cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm--
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political
subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political
subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a
license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political
subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to
receive the license;
(iii) that is--
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that
is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school
in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official
capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while
traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to
public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
premises is authorized by school authorities.
Also Local and state LEOs aren't going to enforce this as they have no jurisdiction on federal charges.