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I am starting this thread as a result of a post in viewtopic.php?f=23&t=36653&p=434554#p434554" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

b322da wrote:I bumped into a cute quote on the 'Net recently while I was searching for a brief but effective way to describe the difference between a clip and a magazine. Being gun-related, it may bear on the ultimate issue on this thread:

"A clip is not a magazine, a mag is not a clip;
Neither is a grip a stock, and "stock" does not mean grip.
I do not mean to nitpick, but improvement could be seen,
If we could bring ourselves to say exactly what we mean." *

* Author identified by Mark Moritz as Jeff Cooper
http://www.thegunzone.com/clips-mags.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For some reason, this topic seems to provoke highly emotional responses from normally rational people. I imagine some of it is from people who served in the military who had a drill instructor yelling in their ear "this is not a clip, this is a magazine."

Magazine...


Clip...

This topic has always been intrigued me. When I was growing up, we always referred to "clips" as an assembly that was used to hold cartridges that were inserted into a firearm. Back then we just called them "guns". When I starting working in the DOD world, the first time I heard the term magazine, it referred to this:


This structure, which we called a magazine, was used to store explosives. It looks very different than a "magazine" storing seven .45ACP cartridges.

Of course there is always the classic definition, that a clip may be used to insert rounds into a magazine, but not vice versa.

A clip holds cartridges without any internal means to feed them, whereas a magazine holds cartridges and incorporates a spring loaded method to feed the rounds. M1 Garands have magazines incorporated in their mechanism, but the magazine is fed by the en bloc clip that remains in the magazine until the last shot is fired. The standard manner for loading a Springfield or Enfield rifle magazine was by clips, as well as many other firearms.

And then, of course, there are magazines used to store major caliber ammunition, which are buildings or compartments designed for the purpose.

And I heard a trainer, once, yelling at a gunnery student "It's a clip, not a magazine."

What is this. A cylindrical clip?

jimlongley wrote:And then, of course, there are magazines used to store major caliber ammunition, which are buildings or compartments designed for the purpose.

And in the spirit of Jim's comment.... a "clip" will not hold even one 16"/50 caliber naval artillery round from BB-61 Iowa, but the BB-61 Iowa's magazines could hold several hundreds of them.

WildBill wrote:

What is this. A cylindrical clip?

It's a speedloader, silly.

karl wrote:

I don't quite understand the "*except the M1 Garand" disclaimer in there, I wonder how else the Garand's magazine would get loaded, it's a chore to try with single rounds.

jimlongley wrote:I don't quite understand the "*except the M1 Garand" disclaimer in there, I wonder how else the Garand's magazine would get loaded, it's a chore to try with single rounds.

Same with a SKS.

jimlongley wrote:I don't quite understand the "*except the M1 Garand" disclaimer in there, I wonder how else the Garand's magazine would get loaded, it's a chore to try with single rounds.

So true, Jim. Back in the day the Gunny made a buddy sleep with his M1 for a week after calling its clip a magazine.

Elmo

Maybe one way to express difference to the uninitiated is to explain that a clip is used to charge the Garand's magazine, and when the magazine is empty, the clip pops out - whereas with the SKS, a stripper clip is used to charge the magazine, but the clip does not actually stay in the gun.... And with an AR15 or an M1A, a stripper clip can be used to charge the removable box magazine, but is not necessary to do so.... except that with an M1A, the stripper clip can be used to charge the (removable) magazine while it is still in place in the gun.

Is everything perfectly clear now?

The Annoyed Man wrote:Is everything perfectly clear now?

Crystal. Do you want to take a shot at the difference between a boat and a ship?

When I was at military school(Allen Academy, Bryan,TX) many moons ago, we were required to memorize the nomenclature of the M-1 Garand, as that's what we were issued for the year. I'll never forget:

"An M-1 is a gas operated, clip fed, semi-automatic, shoulder fired weapon"

We were issued an FM 23-5 and sure enough, it's in there too:

"The U.S. rifle caliber .30, M1, (fig. 1) is an air-cooled, gas-operated, clip-fed, and semiautomatic shoulder weapon. This means that the air cools the barrel; that the power to cock the rifle and chamber the succeeding round comes from the expanding gas of the round fired previously; that it is loaded by inserting a metal clip (containing a maximum of eight rounds) into the receiver; and that the rifle fires one round each time the trigger is pulled."

http://www.fulton-armory.com/tea/intro.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nothing is clear. So I will just refer to the thing as, what holds the ammo ,goes inside the handle of the gun (grip, stock whatever) pushes bullets up inside gun so it will go bang. Why be so radical about what it's called. Clip - magazine. Geez.