Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

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lan40583
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Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by lan40583 »

Tonight while eating dinner with my family at a local pizza restaurant, I had the opportunity to debate the issues of gun ownership and lawful concealed carry with our waitress.

What began as a conversation about the procedures for carrying at the State Fair with my wife’s family evolved into a discussion about requiring a “mental health evaluation” before getting a CHL. Both my in-laws are health care professionals, and even though my father-in-law has a CHL they both were of the opinion that CHL applicants should undergo a mental health screening to “weed out the crazies.” I, on the other hand, disagreed that it would be beneficial to the CHL process. While this is going on, our waitress (mid 20’s, and born in Jordan we later learned) was refilling our drinks when my mother-in-law asks her “Do you think that people should be cleared by a mental health professional before being licensed to carry a gun?,” to which our waitress replies rather loudly, “I don’t think anyone should be allowed to carry a gun!” :banghead:

Surprisingly, she wasn’t frightened off by my mother-in-law’s question. In fact, she stuck around for a while and talked with us about her views on gun control (which I was more than happy to share my views on as well). She explained that she is a student at SMU, and for her political science class she is participating in a “mock-UN” forum on the Small Arms Treaty. (I can already hear the groans from some of you folks, but I assure you that no one brought up any ideas of a “New World Order” or other tinfoil hattery) Apparently, her assignment is to act as the representative of a small African Nation and to represent that country’s stance on the treaty.

During our discussion, she began by proposing the idea that if guns were banned then there would be no gun-violence. :roll: Obviously, I corrected her by pointing out that criminals would not obey the law and turn in their guns, and that they would be the only ones with guns. Next, we talked for a bit about black market guns and how it’s too easy for kids and gang members to get them and how banning guns would do nothing to stop the flow of illegal weapons.

Eventually we got back to discussing the UN small arms treaty when she mentioned that the US is one of the only countries who won’t sign the treaty. My father-in-law pointed out to her that the 2nd amendment would prevent the enforcement of any sort of UN treaty. In response, she stated that “the second amendment only applies to the military in modern times.” Obviously, I corrected her by referencing the recent Supreme Court decisions affirming that the second amendment is an individual right, and also that it refers to the right of “the people,” just like the first amendment. However, she would not accept this argument.

She left to take a few people’s orders, but came back to our table a few minutes later to talk some more. She asked us if we were pro-gun, and we said that yes, we are very pro-gun. Next she asked “Do you all have gun permits?” to which my father-in-law replied that he and I do. “Are you carrying a gun right now?!” My father-in-law answered that he was not, but that I was ( :oops: I’ll have to remind him later that “concealed means concealed”); however, she did not seem to be affected very much by the fact that I was carrying concealed. She asked what kinds of places we were allowed to carry guns, so I pointed out that we could carry pretty much anywhere accept schools, federal buildings, etc. We got to talking about keeping a gun in your car, and she was totally surprised to learn that it was completely legal to keep a gun in your car, loaded even!

After telling her about the legal requirements for keeping a gun in your car, she admitted to not even knowing the requirements to buy a gun or carry concealed in Texas. I laid out the requirements for her for both and told her the process for buying a gun, and it sounded to me like she was genuinely coming around to the idea of owning a firearm.

After that we all talked some more about her assignment for class, and the subject of gun control in other countries came up. We told her about the differences in the gun laws of countries like the UK and Sweden, and she was shocked to hear that violent crime rose to such high levels after handguns and most other firearms were banned in the UK. It was at this point in the conversation that I offered to lend her my copy of “More Guns, Less Crime” by John Lott, and she seemed genuinely interested in hearing more of the “other side” of the gun control debate. I’ll be bringing her my copy of the book on Monday during my lunch hour.

All in all, I thought it was a great encounter. Hopefully she’ll come to view the issues of gun ownership and concealed carry in a more favorable light after reading Dr. Lott’s book. Honestly I don’t really care if she returns it as long as she reads it. I just wish all “anti’s” were as receptive as this girl was.
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karl
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by karl »

Awesome story. You sir, have just done a favor for the entire gun community, keep it up!
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere. -Thomas Jefferson
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drjoker
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by drjoker »

lan40583 wrote:she seemed genuinely interested in hearing more of the “other side” of the gun control debate. I’ll be bringing her my copy of the book on Monday during my lunch hour.
That's what I love to hear. I hate hearing stuff like, "liberals are stupid," because they're NOT stupid. They're just misinformed. People aren't anti-gun because they're "stupid," but they're often misinformed. Kindly set them straight and they'll vote WITH you at the election booths.

P.S. TAM will probably want to know if I've converted my wife. Well, yes and no. She now believes that the freedom to bear arms is important to democracy and liberty. It is a good thing, but she also believes that freedom means the right to choose and she chooses NOT to have guns in the house. She's gotten a CHL to show her legislators that she supports the 2nd amendment, politically, but we still don't have guns in the house because she believes that they're more trouble than they're worth, personally. She also never carries. I wonder how many people have a CHL but never carry? I was at a local range this weekend and all the guys I spoke with have a CHL but none of them carry regularly, myself included.... I'm beginning to think that most people who have a CHL almost never carry.... We just get 'em to let our legislators know not to mess with the constitution. Do you think that's a fair statement?
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by BrianSW99 »

drjoker wrote:
lan40583 wrote:she seemed genuinely interested in hearing more of the “other side” of the gun control debate. I’ll be bringing her my copy of the book on Monday during my lunch hour.
That's what I love to hear. I hate hearing stuff like, "liberals are stupid," because they're NOT stupid. They're just misinformed. People aren't anti-gun because they're "stupid," but they're often misinformed. Kindly set them straight and they'll vote WITH you at the election booths.

P.S. TAM will probably want to know if I've converted my wife. Well, yes and no. She now believes that the freedom to bear arms is important to democracy and liberty. It is a good thing, but she also believes that freedom means the right to choose and she chooses NOT to have guns in the house. She's gotten a CHL to show her legislators that she supports the 2nd amendment, politically, but we still don't have guns in the house because she believes that they're more trouble than they're worth, personally. She also never carries. I wonder how many people have a CHL but never carry? I was at a local range this weekend and all the guys I spoke with have a CHL but none of them carry regularly, myself included.... I'm beginning to think that most people who have a CHL almost never carry.... We just get 'em to let our legislators know not to mess with the constitution. Do you think that's a fair statement?
I've come to the same conclusion. Outside of the folks on this forum, almost everyone I've met with a CHL is what I would call a fair weather carrier. They put a gun in the car when they travel but that's about it. Of course, it's hard to know how many others I've met who carry regularly and I just never knew it.
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by tboesche »

drjoker wrote:
lan40583 wrote:she seemed genuinely interested in hearing more of the “other side” of the gun control debate. I’ll be bringing her my copy of the book on Monday during my lunch hour.
That's what I love to hear. I hate hearing stuff like, "liberals are stupid," because they're NOT stupid. They're just misinformed. People aren't anti-gun because they're "stupid," but they're often misinformed. Kindly set them straight and they'll vote WITH you at the election booths.

P.S. TAM will probably want to know if I've converted my wife. Well, yes and no. She now believes that the freedom to bear arms is important to democracy and liberty. It is a good thing, but she also believes that freedom means the right to choose and she chooses NOT to have guns in the house. She's gotten a CHL to show her legislators that she supports the 2nd amendment, politically, but we still don't have guns in the house because she believes that they're more trouble than they're worth, personally. She also never carries. I wonder how many people have a CHL but never carry? I was at a local range this weekend and all the guys I spoke with have a CHL but none of them carry regularly, myself included.... I'm beginning to think that most people who have a CHL almost never carry.... We just get 'em to let our legislators know not to mess with the constitution. Do you think that's a fair statement?

Nope! I'd have to disagree. Everyone I know that has a CHL carries almost all of the time. As the saying goes, 24-7 or guess right!
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by RPB »

Sounds like you had a good time :tiphat:

Two things I do:

A)

"2nd amendment pertains to military" argument
I have them understand the 3rd (and 4th) amendments ... IN CONTEXT, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th show one idea ... the right of the people to protect themselves FROM the military/government goes with the 2nd, the 2nd ensures the 3rd (relating to our history of people being forced to quarter soldiers)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartering_Acts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Note that Quartering was one of the grievances against the king, we listed in the Declaration of Independence, and we passed the 2nd and 3rd amendments to prevent re occurrence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Amen ... nstitution" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


B)

The "no one should have guns" argument
http://tijuana.usconsulate.gov/tijuana/warning.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I simply point out that guns are illegal in Mexico, so we'd all be as safe as they are (in their "gun-free zone").
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2010/08/8 ... -this.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
83 police officers killed this year in Ciudad Juarez

That article is from months ago, I think I read the total is over 120 officers killed now in that city.

"More than 1,750 gangland killings, according to press tallies, have occurred in Juarez this year."

Good thing guns are illegal there ... imagine how violent it would be if they were legal?
That's just for that ONE city. :banghead:
Last edited by RPB on Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:50 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Purplehood
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by Purplehood »

The waitress sounded to me not like a dyed-in-the-wool gun-hater, but an individual that came from a culture that did not allow guns and was ignorant about the subject of guns in general (though she was Jordanian she might have been raised in the US).
With that in mind, I consider this topic as an object-lesson in the need for communicating the realities of the 2nd Amendment and the right to Self-defense to the "ignorant" masses.
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by chasfm11 »

drjoker wrote:
lan40583 wrote:she seemed genuinely interested in hearing more of the “other side” of the gun control debate. I’ll be bringing her my copy of the book on Monday during my lunch hour.
That's what I love to hear. I hate hearing stuff like, "liberals are stupid," because they're NOT stupid. They're just misinformed. People aren't anti-gun because they're "stupid," but they're often misinformed. Kindly set them straight and they'll vote WITH you at the election booths.
I agree with you that liberals are not stupid. I worked with a woman from Florida who proclaimed herself a "flaming Liberal" and on every topic that I could think of, she fulfilled that moniker completely. She was very smart but her problem was not misinformation. In fact, I've yet to meet any Liberal where I've had a discussion on a controversial topic who I would have termed "misinformed." In most cases, they disagree with you because they simply dismiss your side of the discussion. The Florida woman just "felt" that things like carrying guns were wrong. IF the possibility exists that someone could be harmed, she was against it. She was against the burning of coal because the possibility existed that someone, somewhere would suffer lung problems from it. When you get into it, she and most of the Liberals are so conflicted in their views that they cannot hold a discussion for more than a few minutes. They just throw up their hands when you present them with information that conflicts with their particular stance on a subject and just declare that they feel the other point of view on the subject is wrong. They judge logic and reason to be the opiates of the masses. It doesn't have to make sense or be logical as long as they feel it.

A lady screamed at me for being an "environment wrecker" because we drive an RV. I asked her what she drove and her answer was a Prius. Her Prius gets 50mpg (or so she claimed - she had no evidence to support it.) I asked her how many miles she drove each year and she told me that it didn't matter. I tried to show her that our 10mph RV, driven 4K per year could use less fuel than her Prius, depending on how many miles she drove. She dismissed the argument. Since she got 50mpg, the number of miles wasn't relevant.

I'm very proud of the OP for his success with the waitress. I'm even more surprised and pleased to find a Liberal leaning person who is willing to listen to other points of view that contain logic and reason. That is a very rare quality within the Liberal persuasion, at least in my experience.
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

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drjoker wrote:
lan40583 wrote:she seemed genuinely interested in hearing more of the “other side” of the gun control debate. I’ll be bringing her my copy of the book on Monday during my lunch hour.
That's what I love to hear. I hate hearing stuff like, "liberals are stupid," because they're NOT stupid. They're just misinformed. People aren't anti-gun because they're "stupid," but they're often misinformed. Kindly set them straight and they'll vote WITH you at the election booths.
The problem with liberals in not that they are stupid or even misinformed. It is that they are governed by emotion and no amount of logic or facts will change how the "feel".
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by RPB »

Some anti-gun people try to blame Mexico's violence on the ease one can buy a gun in the States.
I point out that many of the Mexican gangs have fully automatic machine guns, and the process one must go through to obtain and register one in the States, and the cost.

It is seriously doubtful that a person would purchase, register with the Federal Government and pay the high price for a machine gun here, then risk his life to try to sell it to Mexican murderers for a bit of profit, when the "purchasers" could get it for the price of a bullet.. and the risk of 30 years in a Federal or Mexican prison, assuming he lived through the "transaction" is too risky for any sane person to assume. I know of no insurance company who would write a policy that all would go well, and they are in the "risk business".

There are firearms manufacturers in Brazil and other countries they may want to blame instead of US, and that is part of the reason that Mexico is building a wall/fence at their southern border, to stop people from illegally immigrating INTO Mexico.
JJVP wrote:
The problem with liberals in not that they are stupid or even misinformed. It is that they are governed by emotion and no amount of logic or facts will change how the "feel".
Yeah,
"Please don't confuse me with logic nor facts" "rlol"
Last edited by RPB on Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by Purplehood »

JJVP wrote:
drjoker wrote:
lan40583 wrote:she seemed genuinely interested in hearing more of the “other side” of the gun control debate. I’ll be bringing her my copy of the book on Monday during my lunch hour.
That's what I love to hear. I hate hearing stuff like, "liberals are stupid," because they're NOT stupid. They're just misinformed. People aren't anti-gun because they're "stupid," but they're often misinformed. Kindly set them straight and they'll vote WITH you at the election booths.
The problem with liberals in not that they are stupid or even misinformed. It is that they are governed by emotion and no amount of logic or facts will change how the "feel".
That is it in a nutshell. My ex-wife is educated, extremely intelligent and very liberal. She cannot make any logical leap from emotion to reason. Everything has to be the way that is because it is "the right thing to do". I can spout facts and figures all day long until my face turns blue, with absolutely no change in her heart-felt opinion.
I admit that this may be due to my poor communication skills, but it is apparent that my analytical and logical mind (heartless) is in direct contrast to her emotion-based (bleeding-heart liberal) mindset.
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by Rex B »

Purplehood wrote:
That is it in a nutshell. My ex-wife is educated, extremely intelligent and very liberal. She cannot make any logical leap from emotion to reason. Everything has to be the way that is because it is "the right thing to do". I can spout facts and figures all day long until my face turns blue, with absolutely no change in her heart-felt opinion.
I admit that this may be due to my poor communication skills, but it is apparent that my analytical and logical mind (heartless) is in direct contrast to her emotion-based (bleeding-heart liberal) mindset.
All I can say is, you must love her a Whole Lot! :tiphat:
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by Purplehood »

Rex B wrote:
Purplehood wrote:
That is it in a nutshell. My ex-wife is educated, extremely intelligent and very liberal. She cannot make any logical leap from emotion to reason. Everything has to be the way that is because it is "the right thing to do". I can spout facts and figures all day long until my face turns blue, with absolutely no change in her heart-felt opinion.
I admit that this may be due to my poor communication skills, but it is apparent that my analytical and logical mind (heartless) is in direct contrast to her emotion-based (bleeding-heart liberal) mindset.
All I can say is, you must love her a Whole Lot! :tiphat:
Well...she and I agree that we now have the best relationship that we ever have had with one another (post-divorce). We get along quite well now. Perhaps it is because not only do I understand her now, but I understand myself more than I did.
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

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I was eventually able to convince a female friend I know to go to the GRB gun show. Even though she had been robbed at gun point she still felt guns were a bad thing. I asked her, "don't you feel safe here?" she said yes but only because all of the security and I replied, "well the entire world could be like this if you got a gun". Needless to say we bought lots of fudge and jerky but no guns :(
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Re: Talked about guns with an anti-gun waitress

Post by randomoutburst »

I wish my tables would talk to me about guns...it would make my shifts so much more fun!

I'm glad you were able to educate and hopefully change the mind of an anti! Sounds like the effort went both ways...she was receptive and you conveyed the information in a non-threatening and non-abrasive way. Delivery of a message sometimes means more than the message itself.
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