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I was wondering what happens if you enter a 30.06 establishment while carrying but did not see the sign. There are plenty of business that have a lot of stuff out front, which can easily obscure a sign. Recently at the grocery store I nearly missed a TABC sign. Granted it didn't impact carrying ability, but I had never seen it before since it was basically blocked by other stuff from most angles. The only reason I found it was because I was specifically looking at signs (and I always go to the same store).

So, if you get made while carrying in a 30.06 posted place due to not seeing a sign, I assume (hope) that you still have the option of leaving and shouldn't be prosecuted unless you refuse to leave. Basically "oh, sorry, I didn't see the sign, I'm leaving".

Also, is it correct to say that the point of the TABC sign (Unlicensed carry...) is to make it clear that the area is considered "public" and/or the owner only is willing to tolerate CHLs?

Clearly, IANAL.

If you did not see it, it was not conspicuously posted. therefore it is not enforceable if someone found you carrying inside and you honestly did not see it.
However, it has been said on this forum numerous times, that once you see it, you have to respect it

of course, all of this assumes that the sign (once found) meets all of the other rules as far as size, contrasting color etc.

however, if I were to enter an establishment, and there were no 30.06 signs conspicuously posted at the entrance, and found one later at the back of the store, i will still carry there, as it was not posted at an entrance.

As far as the 51% sign, regardless of where in the store it was seen, it has to be followed, and you should leave immediately.

Teamless wrote:If you did not see it, it was not conspicuously posted. therefore it is not enforceable if someone found you carrying inside and you honestly did not see it.
However, it has been said on this forum numerous times, that once you see it, you have to respect it

of course, all of this assumes that the sign (once found) meets all of the other rules as far as size, contrasting color etc.

however, if I were to enter an establishment, and there were no 30.06 signs conspicuously posted at the entrance, and found one later at the back of the store, i will still carry there, as it was not posted at an entrance.

As far as the 51% sign, regardless of where in the store it was seen, it has to be followed, and you should leave immediately.

Nowhere is it stated that the sign MUST be posted at an entrance. Merely "conspicuously" posted. I suppose you could have a huge sign with flashing spot-lights in the center of the store, visible from every corner and nook, and that would be "conspicuous".

If i could conspicuously see it upon entering, i would follow it, if I could not, then it was not conspicuous.
At least thats how I perceive the law

I saw one once (when leaving) that was white on glass. When entering it could not be seen because the background on the other side of the glass was white. When exiting it could be seen on the black background of the asphalt.

It seems to me that this violated the contrasting colors.

It depends how good you conceal and how much you want to be the test case.

I saw one on a sliding door once. Ever time the door slid open the sign disappeared.

Here's one for ya!

Semi tinted glass with brown/gold? signage.



-Cain

bnc wrote:I was wondering what happens if you enter a 30.06 establishment while carrying but did not see the sign.

It can be a problem if you also fail to conceal.

CainA wrote:Here's one for ya!

Semi tinted glass with brown/gold? signage.



-Cain

It was conspicuous enough for you to notice it.

Well, when ya work there...

-Cain

If you go into a place and do not notice the sign and then accidentally reveal your status of carry, the only legal recourse is for the leaders of the establishment to ask you to leave. The only time they could actually call the police is if you were commiting crime while carrying or they actually had a white and black sign with 1" letters. If the sign is not in compliance and that complying sign is not conspicuous, basically at the door of all enterances, then in my eyes I do not think the police could do much other than ask you to leave if the leaders have not already asked you.

From what I understand is, most establishments that do not want ccw's inside usually have a policy that if you see someone carrying they are just to be informed of the policy and asked to remove the firearm from the store. As long as you comply with their right to ask you to do so there is no beef. Thats why most business do not put the ugly obnoxious sign up and put up more visually appealing signs cause they are not interested in prosecuting customers. Makes for bad business. They just aim to keep out as many as they can with the notice and if someone gets through then they just ask them to remove the firearm. This path would be the logical one in my eyes.

I suppose you could always get a anti gun person that wants to make problems, but if the sign is not proper and the reveal is just an accident and not an open intention to brandish, AND you are polite to the officer and calmly rationally explain that you did not see a sign and that the reveal was a simple wardrobe malfunction, and that if you were asked to remove the firearm from the building you would have but they did not even provide you that opportunity, I would think most officers are going to start looking at the anti gun employee as an irration person that likes to waste police time and that the employee should have just rationally asked you to remove the item. I would even bet that for wasting the police officers time the store is going to get a nice little "Your sign is not in compliance" eligantly put statement and told to "fix it" if they intend to waste police time again.

EDIT: BTW: If an establishment is trying to enforce a rule or law, but fails to comply with the EXACT laws/rules for proper notification you should be able to call the city managers office or higher code enforcement office and let them know they establishment is not properly notifiying the public and is still enforcing certain rights. I did this to an apartment complex once for improper towing signs when they towed my vehichal and the City manager himself came out and cited the property, and the apartment manager had to pay for my vehical to be returned to me. Not sure why this would not apply to proper display of 30.06 signs.

2crazy2carry wrote:
...If an establishment is trying to enforce a rule or law, but fails to comply with the EXACT laws/rules for proper notification you should be able to call the city managers office or higher code enforcement office and let them know they establishment is not properly notifiying the public and is still enforcing certain rights.

Why? Concealed is concealed and legal is legal. It either is or it ain't, what's the problem?

bnc wrote:I was wondering what happens if you enter a 30.06 establishment while carrying but did not see the sign. There are plenty of business that have a lot of stuff out front, which can easily obscure a sign. Recently at the grocery store I nearly missed a TABC sign. Granted it didn't impact carrying ability, but I had never seen it before since it was basically blocked by other stuff from most angles. The only reason I found it was because I was specifically looking at signs (and I always go to the same store).

So, if you get made while carrying in a 30.06 posted place due to not seeing a sign, I assume (hope) that you still have the option of leaving and shouldn't be prosecuted unless you refuse to leave. Basically "oh, sorry, I didn't see the sign, I'm leaving".

Also, is it correct to say that the point of the TABC sign (Unlicensed carry...) is to make it clear that the area is considered "public" and/or the owner only is willing to tolerate CHLs?

Clearly, IANAL.

Why apologize if you were concealed in the first place?

bnc wrote:
Also, is it correct to say that the point of the TABC sign (Unlicensed carry...) is to make it clear that the area is considered "public" and/or the owner only is willing to tolerate CHLs?

Clearly, IANAL.

IANAL either, but I believe the purpose of the blue sign is it gives persons carrying illegally (or unlicensed persons carrying under the MPA, or carrying for another lawful purpose) notice of greater penalties inside that area than outside on the sidewalk, and that they, or rather their gun, should just stay in the car, where it's legal.

I LOVE the blue sign, It's a reason to get a CHL for some people, many of whom then educate themselves on other issues.

"You are going to the convenience store? Those places get robbed sometimes, you better take your pistol, oh wait, you can't .... better get your CHL"