TexasCHLforum.com

Okay Flint, here it is. BTW, every Member can post polls.

Chas.

Fred Gonzales wrote:It's legal for me to open carry an AR15 and it's legal for cops to open carry a handgun and I haven't seen any signs prohibiting either form of legal open carry.

No sign can prevent a COP from carrying and I've never seen anyone carry their AR15 into Home Depot, a restaurant, a movie theater, etc. The poll addresses a realistic issue, not a theoretical one.

Chas.

Very few people will open carry handguns just like very few people open carry ARs, shotguns or other rifles. That's why while I think it would be great to have open carry, it isn't an issue that you would want to spend much if any political capital on.

Based on my own admittedly less than scientific research, I think that the general public will probably remain blissfully unaware of any change, and this will include most business owners. Those businesses that are at least marginally aware of the issue will, if they post at all, post something that does not resemble the required sign.

I have asked business owners and managers about their non-compliant signs, and the broad spectrum of responses has amazed me. Again, this is hardly scientific, but most of them have: A) No idea that licensed concealed carry exists in TX, which is divided into two general subsets; 1) Those that think it's just illegal to carry just about anywhere, and 2) Those that think concealed carry is a normal thing without licensing; or B) That ANY sign indicating no guns allowed means just exactly that without regard for proper signage.

There are a few that fall outside that norm, such as the Kia dealership that the manager of told me that the (non-compliant) sign was required by the city of Plano, but they allowed concealed carry by licensees anyway.

I see no reason to believe that the number of compliant 30.06 signs will change significantly.

I do think that the statute needs to be changed to improve the language, such as the sign MUST be no smaller than 3 feet by 4 feet, with a background that reflects light at 680nM with contrasting letters that reflect light at 430nM, or some such and, written right into the statute that any sign other then that will be considered invalid, and indicating civil liability for posting and attempting to enforce improper signage. And no excuses such as we put that up to satisfy the legal department but we really allow CHLs anyway.

I voted "I don't know" simply because...I don't know.

I think most folks would OC or not depending on the local attitude. Legal or not. I hear about OC today out in west Texas, nobody knows it's not legal and nobody cares, even the deputies. Most places in east Texas today nobody would blink, except maybe big stores in Tyler or Nacogdoches or Texarkana. I would open carry at the Bugtussle tote-a-poke but not in Dallas. It should be legal everywhere, I just don't want the hassle in cities.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Okay Flint, here it is. BTW, every Member can post polls.

Chas.

Thank you, and yes I knew that (as well as know how to construct one), I just figured you would post it along with the others and I didn't want to appear to be chasing behind you in opposition. I am surprised you posted this poll dead last though....since the other 3 sort of set the tone... for votes on this one.

flintknapper wrote:I am surprised you posted this poll dead last though.

it must be a conspiracy...... Some poll had to be last, and lets make it this one, rather than another one... on come on!

jimlongley wrote:There are a few that fall outside that norm, such as the Kia dealership that the manager of told me that the (non-compliant) sign was required by the city of Plano,

This is interesting. Can a city do this? Legally, I mean. Of course, I guess they can do just about anything in a contract. If I were going to open a business in a city and the city said this was a requirement and I told them I wouldn't would I have a legal leg to stand on?

Will it lead to a LARGE number of 30.06 signs? I don't know.... it may well lead to more signs, but probably not that many more. The biggest difference is that with open carry, those merchants who are already strongly anti-carry will know immediately whether you've disregarded their non-compliant sign and will encourage them to make it compliant in a hurry.

Teamless wrote:

flintknapper wrote:I am surprised you posted this poll dead last though.

it must be a conspiracy...... Some poll had to be last, and lets make it this one, rather than another one... on come on!

Sir,

Of course...it is not a conspiracy, however..Mr. Cotton is lawyer. I am not...but I am the progeny of three generations of lawyers....so I am quick to spot technique.

Please pay close attention when you see careful/calculated wording and a sequence to polls and questions.

Even Charles...will tell you, he does NOT stop being a lawyer when on-line. He can do this in his sleep.

No offence of any type intended, just stating the facts.

Well said

stroo wrote:Very few people will open carry handguns just like very few people open carry ARs, shotguns or other rifles. That's why while I think it would be great to have open carry, it isn't an issue that you would want to spend much if any political capital on.

It doesn't matter if people actually carry or not. Most likely, all it would take is a well-publicized legislative battle to scare business owners into posting 30.06 signs. Imagine a reporter doing a live "stand up" in front of one of the handful of 30.06 signs in your town, saying something like, "If this bill passes, businesses will be required to post signs like this if they don't want people openly carrying handguns inside." Business owners will see that and think, "I don't like the idea of people carrying guns into my store, and I know my customers wouldn't like it. I'm going to get one of those signs."

And unlike in states that have had open carry for decades or centuries, the first time there was an incident involving open carry (i.e., the police being called on someone lawfully carrying), the incident would be all over the news, and business owners would start thinking, "I don't need those kinds of headaches. I'm getting one of those signs."

Finally, the simple fact that this fight will be so hard fought and so well publicized means that, were open carry to pass, many people would choose to exercise the right simply because it's new and because it's something they've never had before and/or because they worked so hard to win it. And those people would be noticed by business owners and customers (who would complain to business owners), and the likely response would be the posting of more 30.06 signs.

There is no way of knowing if it would lead to a huge increase in 30.06 posting or a slight increase, but I think there would probably be an increase, which is why I chose "Probably" as my answer to the poll.

Perhaps I'm just dense but I fail to see how the sequencing of the polls or the wording in any one of them manipulated my answer to each independently of the others.

JNMAR wrote:Perhaps I'm just dense but I fail to see how the sequencing of the polls or the wording in any one of them manipulated my answer to each independently of the others.

Don't worry. It only works if you're not dense.

Sorry. I couldn't help myself. Am I a bad boy?