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-Cain

I guess I'm ignorant about police protocols but I would have thought that some sort of verbal challenge with the LEOs in cover positions would have/should have been issued. It is possible that the subject was so drunk that even that wouldn't have helped but to have not even attempted it (at least according to the article) seems bizarre.

The Long Beach officers were dispatched to an apartment building after two people reported a man with a gun sitting on a backyard porch landing, McDonnell said. In an excerpt of a 911 call played for reporters, a male caller said the man appeared to have a "tiny six-shooter."

Yep, that'll do it nearly everytime...in Kalifornia.

Actually, sitting around drunk, playing with your "tiny six-shooter", is not recommended procedure in most places.

I bet there's new legislation in California because of this:



Like:



All water hose nozzles must have an orange/red tip.

This article includes a video of the police press conference. After admitting that they shot a man dead without any verbal warnings, the police chief had to deal with the distraught family's questions. I almost fell over when he said, "You are responsible for your actions" in reference to the man who was shot.

I wonder if he thinks his officers are responsible for theirs?

I had a friend at one that made the mistake of point a cellphone at a cop. he was rushed to the hospital after he was shot. he lived only to commit more stupid acts.

AndyC wrote:All sympathy to the man's family, but I'm imagining being one of the cops in that situation.

The call is that there's a man with a gun, you're trying to get closer to see exactly what's going on without alarming the guy into opening fire - then he suddenly spots you and points what appears to be a handgun at you before you can even open your mouth to issue a verbal warning.

What would you do?

Ain't wise to point things at cops - cellphones, badges, fingers or garden hoses - because from the front it's almost impossible for a cop to tell what it is.

Andy, I agree with you about everything you've said, but there are some very troubling aspects to the description the officers involved gave. They claimed that he was making sounds exactly like a gun with the water nozzle. What does that mean? You can't make sounds like the racking of a slide. What else could it be? Then they claimed that he pointed the nozzle at them in a two-handed grip with arms straight and elbows locked just like a trained weapon handler. First, only someone trained in weapons would even know how to do that, and secondly why would a man do that if he recognized the cops? Thirdly, they claimed that they stayed out of his sight, observing him while they waited for additional assets to arrive. Why didn't they just get behind cover when he supposedly pointed the weapon at them and start barking orders? And they called in a helicopter, a mental specialist and numerous other assets. For a drunk guy sitting on his porch?

Sorry, I think the officers' description of the incident stinks like dead fish.

Put yourself in their position. As a CHL holder, would the police buy that story?

Pretty much no info but it reads like a clean shoot.

If a person reasonably believed the guy to be holding a gun, there is no need to enter the use of force continum down low and give verbal commands. You CAN if you have time, distance, cover, but sure don't have to.

The comments on the article are troubling, as always.

AndyC wrote:Why, why, why? I really detest hypothesizing over details and motives that are unknown. Who knows what goes through a drunk guy's mind,...

Beggin' your pardon, but who knows what goes through anybody's mind at any given time? For that reason, I agree with you on the hypothesizing thinghy with, and by, non-participants.

I have to ask. Was there a hose attached to the water nozzle?

If not, and he were holding up a typical shiny-chrome water nozzle and pointing it at the LEOs, than I am sure that I would be convinced that I needed to shoot first and ask questions later. It could easily be mistaken for a firearm at any distance.

Purplehood wrote:I have to ask. Was there a hose attached to the water nozzle?

If not, and he were holding up a typical shiny-chrome water nozzle and pointing it at the LEOs, than I am sure that I would be convinced that I needed to shoot first and ask questions later. It could easily be mistaken for a firearm at any distance.

Good point ...

There really needs to be more legislation ... (Like I said above California would probably do)

All water nozzles must be made of brightly colored plastics, not black nor chrome ...

I see a negligence suit against the water nozzle manufacturer here ......

(Before I get jumped for being litigious ... your highlighter cap and ink pen caps have holes in them, allowing kids who swallow them to breathe ... for a reason ... thank a lawyer for saving lives)

Just to be clear, I am not being silly. If you had been told that the guy had a gun, and he was aiming an object at you from a distance that was shiny and looked like it had a barrel, than the reasonable assumption before you get shot is that he just might have a gun.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Purplehood wrote:Just to be clear, I am not being silly. If you had been told that the guy had a gun, and he was aiming an object at you from a distance that was shiny and looked like it had a barrel, than the reasonable assumption before you get shot is that he just might have a gun.

Stupid is as stupid does.

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