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I know what the law states about your weapon being "concealed", and "discearnable" but is it against the law if someone suspects or has general knowledge that you carry?

For example I use a fanny pack to carry because other methods I've tried "print" on my small body frame. But most people with common sense that see someone wearing a fanny pack often assume "that person must be carrying a gun". I know that's what I think. Does that constitute not being "concealed" if someone suspects you might be carrying?

bobcat50 wrote:I know what the law states about your weapon being "concealed", and "discearnable" but is it against the law if someone suspects or has general knowledge that you carry?

For example I use a fanny pack to carry because other methods I've tried "print" on my small body frame. But most people with common sense that see someone wearing a fanny pack often assume "that person must be carrying a gun". I know that's what I think. Does that constitute not being "concealed" if someone suspects you might be carrying?

My ex-wife's fanny pack was always full of Tampons ... I have no idea what other people suspected, but she didn't own a gun nor have a CHL.

At the Casinos I used to wear TWO fanny packs, it was nice all the separate compartments for nickles/dimes/quarters/half dollars/dollar tokens ... I never carried a gun in a Casino.... I dunno what people thought or suspected.

is it against the law if someone suspects or has general knowledge

Neither of those is in the language of the Statute.
"presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person"

bobcat50 wrote:I know what the law states about your weapon being "concealed", and "discearnable" but is it against the law if someone suspects or has general knowledge that you carry?

For example I use a fanny pack to carry because other methods I've tried "print" on my small body frame. But most people with common sense that see someone wearing a fanny pack often assume "that person must be carrying a gun". I know that's what I think. Does that constitute not being "concealed" if someone suspects you might be carrying?

They can suspect all they want, as long as the gun is completely concealed you are good to go.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... ightType=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
SUBCHAPTER H. LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN
Sec. 411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... ightType=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

There was a young sheriff's deputy who was a regular at the gun store where I worked. When off duty, he'd come in carrying a 1911 under a white T-shirt so tight you could almost make out the Wilson logo on the grip. This was New Mexico. I wondered at the time if that would be intentional failure to conceal in Texas. There was no doubt in anyone's mind he was carrying a gun. Gun people could tell you it was a full-size 1911.

The law speaks to "intentional failure to conceal," not to what people think or suspect. So if you were walking around with your fanny pack unzipped and your gun in plain sight, then you would be in violation of the law. That is why there is no law against "printing." That bulge under your shirt could be anything from a gun to an insulin pump. An observer may suspect what it is, but they don't KNOW what it is because they can't see it, and that is a critical distinction in the eyes of the law.

OK, here is my dumb question to throw in the mix. In a gun shop, Joe Counterman says "So do you have your CHL?" I answer "yes sir" to which he asks "What do you carry". Is this intentionally failing to conceal - not showing, just telling?

SO MANY RULES AND INTERPRETATIONS! Sometimes my head hurts

Divided Attention wrote:OK, here is my dumb question to throw in the mix. In a gun shop, Joe Counterman says "So do you have your CHL?" I answer "yes sir" to which he asks "What do you carry". Is this intentionally failing to conceal - not showing, just telling?

SO MANY RULES AND INTERPRETATIONS! Sometimes my head hurts

I am not a lawyer, and I cannot provide legal advice. In my understanding concealment as it applies here means hidden from view. Talking about it doesn't visually expose the weapon and so doesn't compromise the concealment requirement.

That being said, you should carefully choose who you talk to about it and where those conversations take place. Talking about your concealed gun carelessly can tempt some folks who may not be your best friends to watch you more closely and an accidental exposure which might have gone unnoticed before may be observed and used to cause you grief. This doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen.

I'd say telling somone in conversation is absolutely not a failure to conceal.
I know some on this forum will disagree with that position though. My opinion is worth what you paid for it.

Thank gents! The first time I was asked I 'bout choked... I wasn't sure what to do. I typically don't discuss with anyone, as it causes too much unrest among the masses. I was sure hoping as it was at a gun store it would be OK to say "yes sir don't leave home without it!"

Divided Attention wrote:Thank gents! The first time I was asked I 'bout choked... I wasn't sure what to do. I typically don't discuss with anyone, as it causes too much unrest among the masses. I was sure hoping as it was at a gun store it would be OK to say "yes sir don't leave home without it!"

I don't think you'd have much to worry about there.

Even if you didn't have one coming in, they'd like to see you leave with one.

Divided Attention wrote:OK, here is my dumb question to throw in the mix. In a gun shop, Joe Counterman says "So do you have your CHL?" I answer "yes sir" to which he asks "What do you carry". Is this intentionally failing to conceal - not showing, just telling?

SO MANY RULES AND INTERPRETATIONS! Sometimes my head hurts

IMHO...asking what you carry is different than asking if you are carrying!

Right2Carry wrote:

Divided Attention wrote:OK, here is my dumb question to throw in the mix. In a gun shop, Joe Counterman says "So do you have your CHL?" I answer "yes sir" to which he asks "What do you carry". Is this intentionally failing to conceal - not showing, just telling?

SO MANY RULES AND INTERPRETATIONS! Sometimes my head hurts

IMHO...asking what you carry is different than asking if you are carrying!

carefully choose who you talk to about it and where those conversations take place. Talking about your concealed gun carelessly can tempt some folks who may not be your best friends to watch you more closely and an accidental exposure which might have gone unnoticed before may be observed and used to cause you grief. This doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen.

True story:
I was at a County Tax Assessor/Collector's office, not in a Courthouse,
I was legal there.
They had a sign "No guns allowed except Law Enforcement Officers, or we will Prosecute to the Fullest Extent of the Law"
A person there knows me and ask what I carry, .. I said a Glock
THEN one lady who overheard I didn't know said "ARE YOU CARRYING NOW?"
I replied, "that would be in violation of your sign." (I didn't need to inform anyone it was unenforceable... for more than one reason)
Me and the person who knows me that works there (also a CHL... possibly the person who put up the sign) both smiled as I paid my taxes and left.

Since then, I sometimes keep a spare gun in the car, so I can truthfully reply "I left my gun in the car"

RPB wrote:SUBCHAPTER H. LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN
Sec. 411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

The definition contains three words that are very important to the definition of "concealed."

1. "Openly" discernible - the handgun must be in a position of being in the open so it can be discerned.

2. "Ordinary" observation - not special observation such as "printing" or an xray machine or xray vision - and printing is not OPEN.

3. "Reasonable" person - not an unreasonable person like someone who is merely suspicious or inquiring with questions, etc. And that person would need to be able to reasonably explain what his "ordinary" observation caused him to "openly" discern.

Furthermore, there has to be "intent" in the failure to conceal.

Of course all of this may mean nothing until one is a defendant in court and his attorney makes these points through his cross-examination of any witnesses, in his closing argument and in his briefing of the law to the court. So please use reasonable efforts to conceal without any intent to fail to conceal but don't be paranoid about it.

Right2Carry wrote:

Divided Attention wrote:OK, here is my dumb question to throw in the mix. In a gun shop, Joe Counterman says "So do you have your CHL?" I answer "yes sir" to which he asks "What do you carry". Is this intentionally failing to conceal - not showing, just telling?

SO MANY RULES AND INTERPRETATIONS! Sometimes my head hurts

IMHO...asking what you carry is different than asking if you are carrying!

My experience working in a gun store (in New Mexico, where OC is legal for anyone and CC requires a license), asking someone what they carry usually prompted them to show it.