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So let's see. Not only were our men in uniform not allowed to have bullets, it's now being claimed that Hillary Clinton signed an order to not allow the Benghazi mission to be protected by Marines:

Hunt told Breitbart News that the new State Department Rules of Engagement for Libya, approved and signed by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton since the 2011 fall of Khadafi's regime, severely compromised the safety and security of murdered Ambassador Stevens and all American diplomatic staff in Libya. 
He also stated that the decision not to staff Benghazi with Marines was made by Secretary of State Clinton when she attached her signature to the State Department Rules of Engagement for Libya document. Breitbart News has subsequently learned that under those rules of engagement, Secretary Clinton prohibited Marines from providing security at any American diplomatic installation in Libya.

So far, FOIA requests on the full truth have gone unanswered:

Look for the State Department to continue to stonewall this request, and resist release of the document until after the election. Its contents will be just too damaging. In effect, the country will be able to see Hillary Clinton's signature on the document that served as Ambassador Chris Stevens's death warrant.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... t-Benghazi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

She is just as arrogant and stupid as MaoBama. She too has wasted 3.8 years of her life and ours. She has done nothing worthwhile (that I know of) since taking office other than inadvertently supporting the oil companies.

How? By doing nothing but flying all over the world, accomplishing absolutely NOTHING.

Wonder if 'ole Bill has been having fun with his Cigars while she has been wasting time abroad!

The dirty stuff of this Administration is finally beginning to come out. But this is only an minimal example of what we already suspected out of this crowd, the rest will be sealed for years or......... forever.

We are truly in trouble. And we have allowed it to go on for far too long.

I just hope enough of the American electorate is in agreement with us to make a difference.

She's probably responsible for this year's tomato shortage in Egypt
https://www.google.com/search?q=tomatoe ... =firefox-a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tough to imagine a Secretary of Foreign Affairs (now called Secretary of State) being pelted with tomatoes, so her boss then offers them a billion dollars to buy real weapons.
Is he concerned they'll run out of tomatoes?

AEA wrote:
Wonder if 'ole Bill has been having fun with his Cigars while she has been wasting time abroad!

I think that's the reason Bill has been campaigning so hard for Obama. Is not that he likes or believes in Obama, is that he doesn't want Hillary to lose her job.

Why in the heck would you put someone in harms way with an empty gun? You would think the USS Cole would have hammered home the ridiculousness of that.

The events of this week showed the difference between a world power and a world punching bags can be as little as a few magazines and the will to use them.

hillfighter wrote:The events of this week showed the difference between a world power and a world punching bags can be as little as a few magazines and the will to use them.

ClarkLZeuss wrote:So let's see. Not only were our men in uniform not allowed to have bullets, it's now being claimed that Hillary Clinton signed an order to not allow the Benghazi mission to be protected by Marines....

RoyGBiv posted the following in another thread: viewtopic.php?p=714644#p714644" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RoyGBiv wrote:

williamkevin wrote:

ffemt300 wrote:Since when does an ambassador tell the Marines what to do?

The Marine detachment works for the ambassador.

Another forum post on this subject worth reading here...

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php? ... #post91399" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm going to suggest that everyone in THIS thread read the link he posted, and while your at it, read the other posts by the same author in the linked thread. It directly addresses embassy security, the role of marine embassy detachments, and embassy ROE and ammo regs.

I found it to be an eye opener, and it kept me from saying anything else to make myself sound ignorant on this topic. It is worth reading.

The Annoyed Man wrote: I'm going to suggest that everyone in THIS thread read the link he posted, and while your at it, read the other posts by the same author in the linked thread. It directly addresses embassy security, the role of marine embassy detachments, and embassy ROE and ammo regs.

I found it to be an eye opener, and it kept me from saying anything else to make myself sound ignorant on this topic. It is worth reading.

Thanks for the info, TAM. Very educational. And yes, I was aware that the Ambassador generally sets the ROE and determines the type of security forces needed. However, I still stand by my original sentiments, that most likely Hillary set the rules in Libya, although as I quoted originally, time and FOIA requests will have to tell. But more than that, Hillary (and her boss) have set in place a political culture of what I like to call "wimpy idealism," such that even if she did not directly set the standards for "security" in Libya, her misguided notions indirectly did. Ultimately the buck stops with her (and her boss), regardless.

SRH78 wrote:Why in the heck would you put someone in harms way with an empty gun? You would think the USS Cole would have hammered home the ridiculousness of that.

They did that to us in Desert Storm. I was on a school bus (bad enough) with a M60, M9, M16 and not a round of ammo. We started taking sniper fire and had no defense but harsh language.

I blame the idiots who did the massacring for the massacre. Now does the Presidents and Secretary of States philosophy that the world is made up of rainbows, butterflies, and ponies (and their actions there of) encourage this type of lunacy. I think it might because a bully does not understand mercy or generosity, he sees both as weakness. You cannot negotiate with a bully, because in the end he just wants to bloody your nose and steal your lunch. These extremists want to kill everyone who does not think the exact way they do, that is the highest order of a bully. You deal with a bully in strength and with courage. We have been giving off weak signals for three years at least. So did they pull the trigger, no, but they provided the atmosphere where the extremists felt safe in pulling the trigger.

rm9792 wrote:

SRH78 wrote:Why in the heck would you put someone in harms way with an empty gun? You would think the USS Cole would have hammered home the ridiculousness of that.

They did that to us in Desert Storm. I was on a school bus (bad enough) with a M60, M9, M16 and not a round of ammo. We started taking sniper fire and had no defense but harsh language.

Reading this thread I was thinking... "People who work for the Foreign Service generally know what they're in for". Mr. Stevens was a seasoned veteran of the Service... Then I read first hand accounts of how people like rm9792 who signed up to fight get used as defenseless political pawns... And all my well reasoned thinking goes out the window...



Now that I've (failed to) cleared anything up. ... All I can say for sure is that Diplomacy is an art form. And the people involved generally understand the risks, the limitations and the chain of command. We have the luxury of playing Monday morning QB, but without all the facts. In my opinion, the dust has not settled here. Far from it. It's way too early in the fact finding mission to point fingers at anyone. Mr. Stevens murder would be an act of war if the Libyan government was in any way complicit. Incompetent does not equal complicit.

I keep coming back to the fact that Mr. Stevens KNEW the game very well, he chose to play it and not all the facts have been revealed. Most (many) of us distrust anything this administration says. But, we need to check our emotions against the facts before we find ourselves expressing our anger as gospel.

Remember to keep your eye on the ball and not let this be a distraction from the fact that Iran is weeks away from joining the nuclear club and Israel is days away from acting unilaterally to stop Iran from gaining sufficient nuclear material to wipe Israel from the face of the Earth.

It appears that the Mayans still have time to be correct.

Oh.. and Gut Yontiff and L'shanah tovah tikatev v'taihatem to all the Jewish members here.

I didnt necessarily sign up to fight, I was low on options and thought it a good way to pay for school. WHen DS kicked off I knew what I signed up for and actually looked forward to it. You should have heard some of the (literally) crying from guys that didnt expect to actually have to do something. However we did feel kinda screwed because you had to sign ammo in and out although you kept a weapon at all times. God forbid you were missing a round upon return to the base, start filling out paperwork.

rm9792 wrote:

SRH78 wrote:Why in the heck would you put someone in harms way with an empty gun? You would think the USS Cole would have hammered home the ridiculousness of that.

They did that to us in Desert Storm. I was on a school bus (bad enough) with a M60, M9, M16 and not a round of ammo. We started taking sniper fire and had no defense but harsh language.

trying pulling into ports all over the world and standing proud on the quarterdeck
nice M16, M9 and all rounds in the magazine that is in its pouch on your belt.

many changes came to us in the small ship groups after desert storm, but we still were sitting ducks
it took a while but then we changed the game and for our group everyone had live fire intense training (at sea it was fantastic, lots of rounds and dead killer tomatoes) and we carried with a round in the chamber and the mag full and inserted. world of crap would have come down if we used em...but at least we had the option on deck to protect our boat. then some smart one decided to let the deck crew on the Cole be unprepared, despite of all the real dangers we knew were brewing in yemen. this cost us lives needlessly.