TexasCHLforum.com

Ok guys, not exactly sure where to put this, so mods please move it if it is in the wrong area.

I am a current CHL holder, and proud of it. I am looking to (legally) expand my carry capabilities. LEGALLY. In so doing, I have come across the L3 (CSO) & L4 (PPO) licenses. I understand their primary purposes in a professional capacity, I am not interested in pursing a career as a CSO or PPO; but I am curious if there is any benefit / way of using one or both of these licenses for personal and/or family protection - to eliminate the gun free zones (LEGALLY). I have obtained and read the Private Security Act (Texas Occupational Code ch 1702), but I am not an attorney nor do I have any experience / training relevant to this act specifically. So, if you have any personal experience as a CSO or PPO, or are in fact an attorney and are familiar with this act, I ask for your enlightenment. I appreciate and welcome all comments. Thanks in advance guys-

OperatorJ

EDIT: Title for clarity of intent and I should add that I have called two local places that offer CSO & PPO training and received two completely different responses, hence my request for information here and from someone with experience themselves. Thanks.

How about starting by telling us rubes what CSO (L3) and PPO (L4) is?

In general I think the pointy heads get the knickers in a wad any time someone get a certification just to legally get around laws already on the books using what they lovingly call "loopholes".

baldeagle wrote:How about starting by telling us rubes what CSO (L3) and PPO (L4) is?

In general I think the point heads get the knickers in a wad any time someone get a certification just to legally get around laws already on the books using what they lovingly call "loopholes".

Haha... my apologies... was trying to quickly type my original post to get it done before quitting work for the day.

CSO = Commissioned Security Officer - uniformed and armed (open carry)
PPO = Personal Protection Officer - plain clothes and concealed carry

BUT - there are a LOT of restrictions with both, so its not as simple as just getting one or both of these licenses and "getting around the law". Again, that is NOT my intent. My intent is to expand my carry capabilities LEGALLY. For example, the Texas 30.06 signs do not apply to either a CSO or a PPO while they are on duty. When they are off duty, they carry with a CHL or not at all. Thats a 5 second snippet of what amounts to a mountain of legalities and information that one must sort through before even obtaining either of these licenses.

OpJ

In the case of the CSO, they can only carry their weapon to and from work and while on the job. So it wouldn't expand your carry options any. I'm not 100% sure with the PPO, but I believe it's the same.

I remember reading (I think it was here) about a CSO who stopped off to get gas and was harassed (arrested?) by a cop for open carrying when he wasn't on the job.

I would say no. A security guard doesn't get any "off duty" authority to do what you want. If you want to bypass those zones, become a non paid police officer somewhere. That takes TCLEOSE certification.

In theory, you could obtain your PPO license, and designate your spouse and children as principles. Now, as long as you have a good contract on file, and there is an exchange of money for services (in accordance with ch 1702 - but it could be in the amount of $1/mo) - and that check is cashed by your company, it seems like everything falls in line and it is legal. Thats about as far as I've gotten right now.

Now, the caveat to that is that you cannot be both the PPO on duty and the principle at the same time, so it cannot be used for SELF protection; but it looks like it could be used to protect your family. Still researching.

OpJ

I am level3 licensed. It was already stated that it is only for going to & from work, & while at work, & while wearing the uniform.

I'm not so sure about the PPO stuff, but from the guys I have worked with who were L4 licensed, the CHL is basically the same for self defense & defense of a loved one. One company I worked for hired PPOs, but was not specifically licensed to have them through TXDPS, so they were technically called drivers. Here in TX you don't even need a CHL to carry concealed in a vehicle or on property that you are in control of. But most of those guys carried under the CHL. I'm pretty sure what they were doing wasn't quite legal...

I recommend that you contact a lawyer.

I am surprised that you ask such a volatile question as your first post.

Purplehood wrote:I recommend that you contact a lawyer.

I am surprised that you ask such a volatile question as your first post.

Just curious, but why do you call it a "volatile question"? And why not ask it here? Isn't one of the reasons we are here to answer any TX CHL/gun-related questions someone may have?

RottenApple wrote:

Purplehood wrote:I recommend that you contact a lawyer.

I am surprised that you ask such a volatile question as your first post.

Just curious, but why do you call it a "volatile question"? And why not ask it here? Isn't one of the reasons we are here to answer any TX CHL/gun-related questions someone may have?

Generally I feel the same way that you do regarding first-time posters, being welcoming, tolerant and having an open-mind.

But something about the subject-matter bothers me...I could be entirely wrong, but why introduce yourself with a question that seems to me to be a 'how-to' on getting around laws and regulations? It made me immediately think of an ATFE agent on a fishing-expedition.

As a level 3 and level 4 your chl is more than enough unless you want to create a company on your own or go through the training and hoops of getting legal papers drawn up (contracts etc) appointing yourself as a PPO to x y or z family member...

As a PPO you are authorized to enter certain premises with a firearm however it becomes a very sticky situation when the owners/ managerial staff do not want firearms on the property...ask me how I know this...working job in Podunk town x...client myself and one other PPO entered establishment Y...owner recognized client and approached we asked him to please step back and allow some privacy wile we ate and we would accommodate his requests for photo op autograph or whatever after the meal...he strugged us off and made contact with a firearm carried concealed at my 3:00, Went to his office and called police because he had a 30.06 sign on the door... It took about 45 minutes to explain to the officers that arrived that at that point I was not carrying under a chl but under a state security license as a PPO... Has my letter of authority to do so and contract in hand....we beat the wrap and the ride but it was a rather unpleasant experience.

Also the licenses are only valid if you are "working" for a licensed private security company and with them expiring every 2 years and the need for continuing education(renewal) for both level 3 and 4 licenses unless you have more money than sense it is not worth it unless you are "working" in the industry. The level 4 license is not valid without a current level 3 card so both are required for renewal.