TexasCHLforum.com

With CLEAT apparently having some difficulties with the 4th Amendment:

1. May be a good reason for (level 3?) retention holsters

2. Wonder if in TX, if citizen didn't recognize it was LEO quickly enough, this would have been a "good shoot"? LEO sneaked up, and apparently didn't identify themselves or that they were going to seize a (lawfully oc'ed) pistol.

Tampa Police backpedal on open carry incident

... a Tampa Police Officer unsuccessfully attempted sneak up behind him while fishing and grab his holstered handgun,” said the group in a statement.

“George turned immediately when he felt an unknown person grab for his gun while reaching for a concealed backup gun. As soon as he saw the uniformed officer George stopped before he drew his backup and did not resist the seizure of his handguns.

... has led to Florida Carry planning a lawsuit against the department and establishing a crowd-funding drive to pay for legal services.

With this, authorities advised Guns.com that the weekend incident was all a big mistake.

“It was an error on the officers’ part,” TPD Spokesperson Andrea Davis told Guns.com via email Thursday. “The trespass warning will be rescinded and we are working to contact Mr. Freeman’s to apologize to him.”

ETA ---> If in TX, and if citizen did not immediately recognize individual attempting to seize his pistol as a LEO, there is a chance it would be a "good shoot."

Texas Man Who Killed Police Officer During No-Knock Raid Will NOT Face Murder Charge – Grand Jury Refuses To Indict

This case breaks new ground in Texas. Magee’s attorney, who has been practicing law for many years, couldn’t recall an incident where a grand jury refused to charge a defendant in the death of an officer.

Thankfully the officer was not shot or that the fisherman wasn't shot when he started to reach for his gun.

Totally dangerous, irresponsible & uncalled for behavior on the part of the LEO.

Jim Beaux wrote:Totally dangerous, irresponsible & uncalled for behavior on the part of the LEO.

juno106 wrote:With CLEAT apparently having some difficulties with the 4th Amendment:

1. May be a good reason for (level 3?) retention holsters

2. Wonder if in TX, if citizen didn't recognize it was LEO quickly enough, this would have been a "good shoot"? LEO sneaked up, and apparently didn't identify themselves or that they were going to seize a (lawfully oc'ed) pistol.

Tampa Police backpedal on open carry incident

... a Tampa Police Officer unsuccessfully attempted sneak up behind him while fishing and grab his holstered handgun,” said the group in a statement.

“George turned immediately when he felt an unknown person grab for his gun while reaching for a concealed backup gun. As soon as he saw the uniformed officer George stopped before he drew his backup and did not resist the seizure of his handguns.

... has led to Florida Carry planning a lawsuit against the department and establishing a crowd-funding drive to pay for legal services.

With this, authorities advised Guns.com that the weekend incident was all a big mistake.

“It was an error on the officers’ part,” TPD Spokesperson Andrea Davis told Guns.com via email Thursday. “The trespass warning will be rescinded and we are working to contact Mr. Freeman’s to apologize to him.”

ETA ---> If in TX, and if citizen did not immediately recognize individual attempting to seize his pistol as a LEO, there is a chance it would be a "good shoot."

Texas Man Who Killed Police Officer During No-Knock Raid Will NOT Face Murder Charge – Grand Jury Refuses To Indict

This case breaks new ground in Texas. Magee’s attorney, who has been practicing law for many years, couldn’t recall an incident where a grand jury refused to charge a defendant in the death of an officer.

Maybe, if by "good" you mean spending your life savings on attorney fees, losing your job, and perhaps your home, and finally getting out of jail after a trial.

rtschl wrote:Thankfully the officer was not shot or that the fisherman wasn't shot when he started to reach for his gun.

I wonder if the officer would think it's a valid exercise to have the same thing done to him.

If I was that officer's boss, he just showed inherently bad judgement.

Very bad tactics IMO.

I think this may be a good time to sue the individual cop in order to get the message across this isn't going to fly.

Well, what is the alternative?

1. Does the fact that someone is wearing a police uniform 100% guarantee that the individual is in fact LEO?

FL: Robbers Posing As Police Officers Ransack W. Miami Home

TX: Police seek convenience store robber who wore Stripes uniform, threatened clerk


2. Do u/c LEO's wear uniforms? If they're "blending in", how are you supposed to know they're LEO, if they're sneaking up on you, not identifying themselves, and going for your legally oc'd holstered pistol?

3. I would sincerely hope that this LEO's actions are not SOP for (Tampa) officers.


The adage "better tried by 12 than carried by 6" would meet my definition of "good". YMMV.

VMI77 wrote:Maybe, if by "good" you mean spending your life savings on attorney fees, losing your job, and perhaps your home, and finally getting out of jail after a trial.

juno106 wrote:Well, what is the alternative?

1. Does the fact that someone is wearing a police uniform 100% guarantee that the individual is in fact LEO?

FL: Robbers Posing As Police Officers Ransack W. Miami Home

TX: Police seek convenience store robber who wore Stripes uniform, threatened clerk


2. Do u/c LEO's wear uniforms? If they're "blending in", how are you supposed to know they're LEO, if they're sneaking up on you, not identifying themselves, and going for your legally oc'd holstered pistol?

3. I would sincerely hope that this LEO's actions are not SOP for (Tampa) officers.


The adage "better tried by 12 than carried by 6" would meet my definition of "good". YMMV.

VMI77 wrote:Maybe, if by "good" you mean spending your life savings on attorney fees, losing your job, and perhaps your home, and finally getting out of jail after a trial.

There is no realistic alternative. No matter how good the police may be there are always going to be some bad officers and honest officers are going to make mistakes, so there is no kind of reform that can eliminate the possibility of having to face such a situation. The odds can be reduced by good policing and that's probably the best we can hope for. Out of all cases of police swatting the wrong address or shooting at or attacking the wrong person, the number of wrongfully attacked people who have survived and fought back and not spent years in prison is negligible, so the odds are very much against you to start. If you survive and go to trial you may have a 1% or so chance of getting out of jail --in states like Texas...not even that in some places. You're life is simply hosed if you have to misfortune to be in such a situation. Even if the law itself put you on equal terms the presumption of innocence is always going to favor the police. And if it ever ceases to be that way things like trials, if they still exist, will be irrelevant.

Risky for one guy to take a holstered gun.
Easy for two guys working together.

WildBill wrote:Very bad tactics IMO.

It's more than bad tactics, it ain't real smart, IMO. It's just another of about 11,352 reasons why I probably won't OC in town.

To bad the fisherman wasnt a federal agent of some type that would be a better story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn ... nt-pastor/

Not clear, but based on comments in the article, open carry may be a factor in his death.

Maybe if the fog on Hectorville Road hadn’t been so thick. Or if the flood waters hadn’t been so furious. Or if Nehemiah Fischer didn’t have that shiny new handgun on his hip.

Maybe then he’d still be alive.

Uncertainty and anger are swirling like storm clouds in Oklahoma, where, on Friday night, state highway patrolmen shot Fischer during a roadside rescue gone horribly wrong. Authorities claim that Fischer, 35, attacked officers after they told him to leave his disabled pickup truck, giving them no choice but to defend themselves.

But Fischer’s family says the troopers had no reason to be there, let alone gun down “a god-fearing man.”

VMI77 wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn ... nt-pastor/

Not clear, but based on comments in the article, open carry may be a factor in his death.

Maybe if the fog on Hectorville Road hadn’t been so thick. Or if the flood waters hadn’t been so furious. Or if Nehemiah Fischer didn’t have that shiny new handgun on his hip.

Maybe then he’d still be alive.

Uncertainty and anger are swirling like storm clouds in Oklahoma, where, on Friday night, state highway patrolmen shot Fischer during a roadside rescue gone horribly wrong. Authorities claim that Fischer, 35, attacked officers after they told him to leave his disabled pickup truck, giving them no choice but to defend themselves.

But Fischer’s family says the troopers had no reason to be there, let alone gun down “a god-fearing man.”

Haven't you seen the video? He goes up to two cops, who were yelling at him and his brother to get out of a flooded ditch, and just jumps one of the cops. He and the cop went to the ground with him on top. Booze had more to do with this than any OC