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http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/ind ... se_ar.html

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/ind ... raigs.html

This has all kinds of interesting self-defense elements to it, including a happy ending.

Summary:

Father & son, ages 72 and 42, answered ad for woman selling her late husband's Chevrolet Chevelle for cash.

The "widow" turned out to be three men ages 19, 20, and 23, who attacked the would-be buyers with mace, fists, and maybe clubs.

The son, who has a carry permit, shot two of the attackers one time each, in the chest, with a "small-caliber" handgun, putting the robbers to flight. The father and son then drove to a McDonald's and called police.

The wounded robbers were quickly found by police, taken to a hospital, and have been arraigned on charges. A man deemed a person of interest in the case is being held on unrelated drug charges.

[Battle Creek Police Department Detective Sergeant Jim] Martens confirmed Thursday that police will not be pursuing any charges against Jon Vanderwiel [the son with the carry permit].

"With the information that we have, I don't see where he's going to be treated as anything other than a victim," Martens said.

Would be interested in knowing how small of a caliber handgun he used since they both were shot in the chest and appears that both have survived.

I'm happy the father and son are okay and were prepared for that possibility. What shocks me is that neither of them had a mobile phone that they call 911 with immediately.

C-dub wrote:I'm happy the father and son are okay and were prepared for that possibility. What shocks me is that neither of them had a mobile phone that they call 911 with immediately.

Going to McD's doesn't necessarily mean they didn't have phones, they may have concluded that it was safer to get out of the kill-..or rob-...zone and call 911 from a safe location. That could be very wise move.

rytchard wrote:Would be interested in knowing how small of a caliber handgun he used since they both were shot in the chest and appears that both have survived.

Lots of people survive gunshot wounds from handgun calibers to the chest. In fact, probably most do. I once held a conversation with a man who had been shot dead center right through the heart with a 9mm FMJ that put a through and through hole in it. He was alert and oriented to time and place, until we got him into the OR and put him under to crack his chest. He would have in all probability eventually died from the pericardial tamponade that was forming, but not immediately. And I've had numerous other interactions with people shot in the chest, with all kinds of calibers. They were hurting and in trouble, but nowhere near dead.

I did not know that! :::said in best Johnny Carson voice::: Interesting!

The only sure kill with a small caliber pistol is an angry wife chasing a cheating husband with a 1-1/2 barreled .22 semi -auto. She can put a pill in the back of his head on a dead run at 50 yards! At least that's what the guys teaching my EMT class told me years ago.

Approximately 80% of people shot with a handgun survive. Up to 25% of people shot in the head survive. (Depends on the study you cite.)

baldeagle wrote:Approximately 80% of people shot with a handgun survive. Up to 25% of people shot in the head survive. (Depends on the study you cite.)

In NYC after the Sullivan act banned handguns shooting victim fatalities increased due to perps switching to rifles and shotguns.

ELB wrote:

C-dub wrote:I'm happy the father and son are okay and were prepared for that possibility. What shocks me is that neither of them had a mobile phone that they call 911 with immediately.

Going to McD's doesn't necessarily mean they didn't have phones, they may have concluded that it was safer to get out of the kill-..or rob-...zone and call 911 from a safe location. That could be very wise move.

That makes sense and I'd considered that, but why not call in the car while leaving the area?

The Annoyed Man wrote: Lots of people survive gunshot wounds from handgun calibers to the chest. In fact, probably most do. I once held a conversation with a man who had been shot dead center right through the heart with a 9mm FMJ that put a through and through hole in it. He was alert and oriented to time and place, until we got him into the OR and put him under to crack his chest. He would have in all probability eventually died from the pericardial tamponade that was forming, but not immediately. And I've had numerous other interactions with people shot in the chest, with all kinds of calibers. They were hurting and in trouble, but nowhere near dead.

Geee TAM thanks...

Now you have me re-evaluating my choice of defensive carry calibers...



I wonder if this would raise the alarm if I open carried this... Naw I better leave that to OCT

The Annoyed Man wrote:

rytchard wrote:Would be interested in knowing how small of a caliber handgun he used since they both were shot in the chest and appears that both have survived.

Lots of people survive gunshot wounds from handgun calibers to the chest. In fact, probably most do. I once held a conversation with a man who had been shot dead center right through the heart with a 9mm FMJ that put a through and through hole in it. He was alert and oriented to time and place, until we got him into the OR and put him under to crack his chest. He would have in all probability eventually died from the pericardial tamponade that was forming, but not immediately. And I've had numerous other interactions with people shot in the chest, with all kinds of calibers. They were hurting and in trouble, but nowhere near dead.

^^This^^

Carried one guy, right ventricle perforated with a .45. Got a thank you note from him a few weeks later.

Another was hit four times with a 9mm. Tension pneumothorax right, simple left. Muffled heart tones (there's your tamponade). Decompressed the right side, used PPV on the way to the hospital. They auto transfused something like three liters but he made it. Died of an overdose some months later.

Could reminisce about several more but TAM is right. LOTS of people survive LOTS of GSWs to the chest.

Syntyr wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote: Lots of people survive gunshot wounds from handgun calibers to the chest. In fact, probably most do. I once held a conversation with a man who had been shot dead center right through the heart with a 9mm FMJ that put a through and through hole in it. He was alert and oriented to time and place, until we got him into the OR and put him under to crack his chest. He would have in all probability eventually died from the pericardial tamponade that was forming, but not immediately. And I've had numerous other interactions with people shot in the chest, with all kinds of calibers. They were hurting and in trouble, but nowhere near dead.

Geee TAM thanks...

Now you have me re-evaluating my choice of defensive carry calibers...



I wonder if this would raise the alarm if I open carried this... Naw I better leave that to OCT

Glad to help.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Syntyr wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote: And I've had numerous other interactions with people shot in the chest, with all kinds of calibers. They were hurting and in trouble, but nowhere near dead.

Geee TAM thanks...

Now you have me re-evaluating my choice of defensive carry calibers...



I wonder if this would raise the alarm if I open carried this... Naw I better leave that to OCT

Glad to help.

If this discussion doesn't dissolve into heated tactical debate about the MOA of that rear sight, the internetz failed today.

goose wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Syntyr wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote: And I've had numerous other interactions with people shot in the chest, with all kinds of calibers. They were hurting and in trouble, but nowhere near dead.

Geee TAM thanks...

Now you have me re-evaluating my choice of defensive carry calibers...



I wonder if this would raise the alarm if I open carried this... Naw I better leave that to OCT

Glad to help.

If this discussion doesn't dissolve into heated tactical debate about the MOA of that rear sight, the internetz failed today.

umm, don't think you need to be quite that accurate with a 40mm grenade