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WARNING! The following video is graphic showing a multiple shootings and a LEO fatality. WARNING!

This video shows what works and what in this instance did not work. It is my hope that members can learn from this video

WARNING! GRAPHIC

This is an excellent video. I don't like the age-old statement "don't draw on a drawn gun." That's far too broad. The second shooting that was successful was a situation where the good guy successfully drew on a drawn gun. It's far more accurate to state "don't draw on a drawn gun when you are the focus of attention." Even then, there are circumstances when that's the only option.

I'd bet the dead officer had a retention holster that cost him his life. As long as the thug took to shoot him, the officer might have lived with a non-retention holster.

Chas.

I agree, In the first example, the highest priority was to get out of the X AND disarm the bad guy and/or hold the Pistol Muzzle and pointed away from you. The police tried to push forward, he should have kept with his strategy and ram the bad guy and turn behind him and try to disarm him.
In the second example, the shot was way too close. The hostage could have been shot in the face. However, the strategy worked, distract, draw, and return fire.

That being said, in the first example, the adrenaline dump was high that the LEO has narrowed tunnel vision and "less time to think".
Oh, it is not graphic.... no gore, no blood, and it is a grainy video.

Seems like one needs a dose of common sense and to not over estimate one's abilities.

Personally I would have gone for the disarm in the first officer's situation, but to be confident of a disarm does require proper disarm training.

Paladin wrote:Personally I would have gone for the disarm in the first officer's situation, but to be confident of a disarm does require proper disarm training.

On Auto-pilot mode, your "inner-brain" would take over. Survivalism mode is ON.

Beiruty wrote:

Paladin wrote:Personally I would have gone for the disarm in the first officer's situation, but to be confident of a disarm does require proper disarm training.

On Auto-pilot mode, your "inner-brain" would take over. Survivalism mode is ON.

Certainly the officers action appear to demonstrate a gun focused training, where he focused on attempting to get his gun out of his holster as opposed to taking other action. Having experienced a retention holster not wanting to let go of my gun at in-opportune times I can sympathize with him. You really have to train with retention holsters under stress to find out what you need to do to reliably draw your gun under duress.

My auto-pilot doesn't have a gun focus, but that takes substantial training.

Paladin wrote:Personally I would have gone for the disarm in the first officer's situation, but to be confident of a disarm does require proper disarm training.

Failure to control the weapon in that close quarters situation is a training issue.

Beiruty wrote:

Paladin wrote:Personally I would have gone for the disarm in the first officer's situation, but to be confident of a disarm does require proper disarm training.

On Auto-pilot mode, your "inner-brain" would take over. Survivalism mode is ON.

That's why you train. You can train your "inner brain", but it takes time andwork.

ELB wrote:

Beiruty wrote:

Paladin wrote:Personally I would have gone for the disarm in the first officer's situation, but to be confident of a disarm does require proper disarm training.

On Auto-pilot mode, your "inner-brain" would take over. Survivalism mode is ON.

That's why you train. You can train your "inner brain", but it takes time and work.

Sweat saves blood

I agree that saying "don't draw on a drawn gun" is far too broad and general. If someone has a gun on me, and I am convinced that I am about to be shot anyway, what do I have to lose by going down fighting?

This lady didn't read the rule about not drawing on a drawn gun:
http://abc13.com/news/pistol-packing-gr ... r/1685244/

RossA wrote:I agree that saying "don't draw on a drawn gun" is far too broad and general. If someone has a gun on me, and I am convinced that I am about to be shot anyway, what do I have to lose by going down fighting?

And based on a lot of the self defense stories I see, many criminals are using fake guns, unloaded guns, or just don't have any idea how to use a gun. You still need to be careful and use distraction and movement as best you can.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'd bet the dead officer had a retention holster that cost him his life. As long as the thug took to shoot him, the officer might have lived with a non-retention holster.

Chas.

In this particular situation, yes. The officer may still be living or gotten a shot off having an non-retention holster. When you're fighting for you life with someone bigger and stronger than you, a good level 3 holster can save your life. I believe the pros outway the cons on retention holsters. I practice my draw weekly for a reason.

MechAg94 wrote:

RossA wrote:I agree that saying "don't draw on a drawn gun" is far too broad and general. If someone has a gun on me, and I am convinced that I am about to be shot anyway, what do I have to lose by going down fighting?

And based on a lot of the self defense stories I see, many criminals are using fake guns, unloaded guns, or just don't have any idea how to use a gun. You still need to be careful and use distraction and movement as best you can.

Using almost 5,000 newspaper stories, Clayton Cramer and a couple other guys produced some interesting statistics about citizens' defensive use of firearms. One of them was that out of 338 cases where a person wielding a gun was disarmed, only 11 times was it the good guy who was disarmed. In the other 227 cases the bad guy started out armed with a gun, and his would-be victim took it away. In one of the 11 cases where the good guy was disarmed, the homeowner had a rifle, which a bad guy got away from him. So the homeowner drew his pistol and shot the bad guy.