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Just wonder everyone's thoughts on constitutional carry impact on LTC classes?

Obviously, if CC is passed, no classes will be required. It will put an end to LTC classes as a whole.

Erick Drake wrote:Obviously, if CC is passed, no classes will be required. It will put an end to LTC classes as a whole.

Not entirely. If the price is dropped to $40, some people will still renew and get new licenses for reciprocity. On the other hand, if it stays at $140, then people looking to carry in other states are better off with a nonresident license from other states.

In addition, there's the hope that LTC will some day be trusted enough to get some of the off limits locations removed, but that's a harder sell for the unlicensed masses when vetted LTC have been waiting 20 years.

Finally, there are the people who don't want to risk a Federal GFSZ violation.

Erick Drake wrote:Obviously, if CC is passed, no classes will be required. It will put an end to LTC classes as a whole.

There will be several good reasons to pursue an LTC. The classes will continue. Probably fewer students, fewer classes and fewer instructors.

Would likely be the end of most LTC classes. Personally, I hope that it doesn't pass. I believe that anyone carrying a loaded weapon needs to have at least SOME training in the laws, handling, marksmanship, etc. While the current LTC regimen is certainly not particularly demanding, at least people are FORCED to gain some amount of education and be tested to make sure they absorbed at least some of it. While I'm sure some folks who are respectful of weapons will do the research themselves, I'm not particularly optimistic that the average joe will put in the effort to do so. It's not my intention to denigrate anyone, but would guess that most on this forum have not only gone through the rigor to earn their right to carry, but have also taken additional training classes and work on the their skills regularly.

I don't believe that removing the most basic requirements to assess knowledge and proficiency with a deadly weapon would lead to better outcomes, and would likely provide more fodder for the anti-gunners. I've shared my thoughts with Alice Tripp at TRA, encouraging her to spend their time and resources pushing to completely de-criminalize violations of 30.06 and 30.07.

While I'm all about the Constitution and 2nd amendment, I do believe that anyone who chooses to carry a loaded weapon should have some amount of experience and training (the more the better). I grew up in a rural area, hunting, fishing and enjoying the outdoors and being around guns as a part of life. We were all taught the "rules" at an early age, and it was enforced with an iron hand. If one doesn't have this type of background, they at least need to be taught the basics (CHL). Otherwise, I believe that we all become a bit less safe, as ANYONE can carry, regardless of experience, temperment, or ability.

How does an LTC class evaluate temperament and experience?

While the number of people seeking to take an LTC class will undoubtedly go down, the affects of Constitutional Carry is overstated. MO passed CC, yet folks are still getting their licenses. As has been said for anyone wishing to travel and carry beyond the borders of TX an LTC will still be required. Further, the NICS check bypass is enough for many to get their LTC.

While I don't favor a requirement to get training before carrying, I absolutely think it's a great idea. Most folks that don't know any better think that's what an LTC class is, training. Truth be told it's far from it, more a requirement to indicate you've been instructed on the laws regarding the process in order to qualify for your license. That is to say that you'll still have a lot of folks taking an LTC class thinking it's a training class (hopefully many will continue on to attend real training/learning).

All that to say no, I don't think CC will be the end of LTC classes.

If nothing else, a class makes them spend several hours around people, some of whom are very serious about gun safety and training. I frequently have recent combat veterans in class, and they have been good role models.

I think the Proficiency, weak as it is, gives some people a greater understanding of the seriousness of the act of carrying a gun.

I guarantee that, with no requirements at all, some people will carry a gun, having NEVER shot one at all. I have people all the time try to register for my classes who have never held a gun in their hand (I block them).

Many people on this forum will find that hard to believe, as they have experience and training, and constantly strive to get more, but there are people out there who don't think they need to know how a gun works to carry it, any more than they need to know how a car works to drive it.

I see a fair number of ladies in class who don't actually want a license, and don't care about guns, but are there because their husband wants them to have a license. Under a CC regime, they are more a danger to themselves and bystanders than to bad guys.

Even if people don't have to take a class and learn about the law, they should, at a minimum, have to take a Proficiency, and demonstrate a minimal level of skill.

All the reasoning above is why firearm safety classes should be mandatory in Elementary and High Schools. This would also cut down on accidents involving firearms.

Whether "Constitutional Carry" reduces the number of new licensees/classes/instructors I believe will depend upon timing. If CC passes this session along with SB16's fee reduction, then I agree with Liberty's assessment. If SB16 passes this session and CC does not pass until next session (2019), then I think the impact will be minimal.

A fee reduction to $40 will prompt a lot of people to get a license. Those that have been serious about self-defense have not been deterred by the cost of the initial license fee or the renewal fee. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the public suffer from "Other Guy Syndrome" and $140 is a barrier to people who are convinced they will never need a self-defense handgun on the street. At $40, I think a lot of people will get their license "just because . . ." I view this as a huge benefit for the individual as well as the general population.

I would expect that by 2019, most folks who want to carry a handgun on their person will have gotten a license if they are 21 or older. If Constitutional Carry passes in 2019, we would have had two years with low fees and our LTC community will likely have grown substantially. These folks will have an impact on their friends and family in terms of deciding whether to carry with or without a license. Again, at $40 the fee will not be a hurdle so I think many folks will decide that the benefits of having a license outweigh the one-time cost of the class. As others have mentioned, I foresee licensees being exempted from some or all of the state-mandated off-limits areas, so that would be another incentive to get the license.

Chas.

But don't hold your breath on that. The union teachers would set their hair on fire.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:As others have mentioned, I foresee licensees being exempted from some or all of the state-mandated off-limits areas, so that would be another incentive to get the license.

Chas.

Charles, are there any other bills out there this year that are for reducing off-limit areas for license holders other than 560? Or is there a chance that a substitute or amendment of another bill currently out there could have some of that text added for exempting license holders?

locke_n_load wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:As others have mentioned, I foresee licensees being exempted from some or all of the state-mandated off-limits areas, so that would be another incentive to get the license.

Chas.

Charles, are there any other bills out there this year that are for reducing off-limit areas for license holders other than 560? Or is there a chance that a substitute or amendment of another bill currently out there could have some of that text added for exempting license holders?

No and No, unfortunately.
Chas.