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TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:59 am
by Frankie
Refereed to grand jury but putting this one under Self Defense Reports as witness collaborate the shooters story of self defense.
JV football game two men 47 and 31 begin fighting. They both leave for the parking lot. Not sure if they were tossed out of the game or left to take it "outside". At some point, the 47 yr old felt threatened or fear for his life and shot the 31 yr old male in the chest.
Lots of questions about what transpired in the parking lot and at what point did the shooter retrieve his firearm. I can only assume he has his LTC otherwise, he would have been arrested for having a gun on school property? The stadium parking lot is part of school grounds right?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/28/te ... e-say.html
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:56 am
by Allons
At least he has eyewitness accounts that it was self-defense. I think the LTC; if the shooter has one will be his saving grace also guy who was shot does not want to press charges. This will be interesting to see how it plays out though.
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:19 am
by flechero
Why would any LTC "take it outside" instead of calling the police... maybe he was actually trying to leave and the other guy followed? Looking forward to more details.
Allons wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:56 am
guy who was shot does not want to press charges.
Does he have that option if he was the aggressor?
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:43 am
by Allons
flechero wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:19 am
Why would any LTC "take it outside" instead of calling the police... maybe he was actually trying to leave and the other guy followed? Looking forward to more details.
Allons wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:56 am
guy who was shot does not want to press charges.
Does he have that option if he was the aggressor?
No, he does not have the option. Usually guilty people who have been shot don't want to press charges.
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:10 am
by flechero
Allons wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:43 am
flechero wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:19 am
Why would any LTC "take it outside" instead of calling the police... maybe he was actually trying to leave and the other guy followed? Looking forward to more details.
Allons wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:56 am
guy who was shot does not want to press charges.
Does he have that option if he was the aggressor?
No, he does not have the option. Usually guilty people who have been shot don't want to press charges.
That's what caught me off guard- the original statement that he didn't want to, I never thought he could anyway.
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:26 pm
by surprise_i'm_armed
IIRC, Hebron may have been its own town in years past, but seems to now be considered Carrollton, since Carrollton PD
handled this case.
In the video you see Plano PD units since Hebron H.S. is close to the border of Carrollton and Plano.
The HS is in the general vicinity of the mega church known as Prestonwood Baptist Church, which, by the way
was instrumental in putting together large scale church security conferences in multiple Texas cities after
the Sutherland Springs massacre.
The 47 year old shooter was a local resident of Carrollton while the 31 man who was shot was from Fort Worth.
Since the game was between Hebron and an Irving team, it's not known why the Fort Worth man was at that game.
Relative of one of the players??
SIA
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:49 pm
by rotor
I am confused. Isn't it illegal to have a gun at a high school event even if you have a LTC?
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:15 pm
by TexasJohnBoy
rotor wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:49 pm
I am confused. Isn't it illegal to have a gun at a high school event even if you have a LTC?
You can keep it in your car. You can't carry into the event. I'm still fuzzy on when/how/if he got it from his car during the confrontation...
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:16 pm
by Bruin98
rotor wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:49 pm
I am confused. Isn't it illegal to have a gun at a high school event even if you have a LTC?
Not if he left it in his car, went in to the game, left the game and retrieved the weapon. That's a legal scenario for him being armed in the parking lot.
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:44 pm
by srothstein
rotor wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:49 pm
I am confused. Isn't it illegal to have a gun at a high school event even if you have a LTC?
Not necessarily. Note that with an LTC, you are only banned from carrying in the buildings. It is doubtful that the JV team was playing football inside a building. And that is without deciding if a stadium is a building or not. I would guess JV teams play on a lower level field with bleachers, not in the big district stadiums.
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:37 pm
by rotor
srothstein wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:44 pm
rotor wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:49 pm
I am confused. Isn't it illegal to have a gun at a high school event even if you have a LTC?
Not necessarily. Note that with an LTC, you are only banned from carrying in the buildings. It is doubtful that the JV team was playing football inside a building. And that is without deciding if a stadium is a building or not. I would guess JV teams play on a lower level field with bleachers, not in the big district stadiums.
I am still confused. Are you saying that an LTC holder can carry at a high school football event that is held outside of a building?
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:24 pm
by C-dub
srothstein wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:44 pm
rotor wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:49 pm
I am confused. Isn't it illegal to have a gun at a high school event even if you have a LTC?
Not necessarily. Note that with an LTC, you are only banned from carrying in the buildings. It is doubtful that the JV team was playing football inside a building. And that is without deciding if a stadium is a building or not. I would guess JV teams play on a lower level field with bleachers, not in the big district stadiums.
I'm just a little bit shocked that you would leave open the possibility that carrying at a high school sporting event might not be illegal. I thought it was a given.
However, even given your caveat that the game probably isn't inside and the shooter may not have had to traverse into or through a building or portion of a building I also don't know if you're familiar with this area of high school sports. Hebron isn't one of them and I'm not intimately aware of Hebron's situation for their JV, but a few of the high schools in this area have build multi-million $$$$$ facillities for their HIGH SCHOOL football teams. I'm talking $50M+ stadiums. It's ridiculous!!! I'm pretty sure Hebron isn't one of the $50M+ schools, but not sure they aren't at least $5M or in that neighborhood.
Whatever Hebron has, if the Varsity is away or has already played or plays on a different night, they may use the same main field.
In any event, if this guy did carry into the game and did not enter any building or portion of a building, he might just be our test case if the do decide to charge him with carrying in or at a restricted place.
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:24 pm
by Mike S
While TPC 46.035 uses the specific language of "Premises" when prohibiting LTC carry at High School/Collegiate/Professional Sporting Events (thus a building or portion of a building), TPC 46.03 says:
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a) :
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless:
(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution; or
(B) the person possesses or goes with a concealed handgun that the person is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and no other weapon to which this section applies, on the premises of an institution of higher education or private or independent institution of higher education, on any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by the institution is being conducted, or in a passenger transportation vehicle of the institution;
I'm no lawyer, but I'd opine that even with an LTC that TPC 46.03's use of "...any grounds... on which an activity sponsored by a school..." prohibits carry at any school sporting event, regardless if it's indoors, inside a stadium, or out in the field, even if that stadium or field isn't located on school property (UNLESS you have written authorization or that school district has a published policy/regulation regarding LTC holders allowing it). For college sporting events, concealed carry would be allowed under the Campus Carry Statutes, unless it's otherwise posted IAW 30.06.
In fact, TPC 46.03 specifically states that:
(f) Except as provided by Subsection (e-1), it is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor possessed a handgun and was licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.(*)
This would make carry at the high school sporting event still a 3rd degree felony, whereas the parking lot would not be an offense (unless that's where the school sponsored event was taking place).
(*)(Subsection (e-1) provides an exception for an LTC Holder who inadvertently takes their handgun thru the secured area of an airport, as long as they immediately depart when notified).
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:58 pm
by Soccerdad1995
Mike S wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:24 pm
While TPC 46.035 uses the specific language of "Premises" when prohibiting LTC carry at High School/Collegiate/Professional Sporting Events (thus a building or portion of a building), TPC 46.03 says:
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a) :
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private,
unless:
(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution; or
(B) the person possesses or goes with a concealed handgun that the person is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and no other weapon to which this section applies, on the premises of an institution of higher education or private or independent institution of higher education, on any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by the institution is being conducted, or in a passenger transportation vehicle of the institution;
I'm no lawyer, but I'd opine that even with an LTC that TPC 46.03's use of "
...any grounds... on which an activity sponsored by a school..." prohibits carry at any school sporting event, regardless if it's indoors, inside a stadium, or out in the field, even if that stadium or field isn't located on school property (UNLESS you have written authorization or that school district has a published policy/regulation regarding LTC holders allowing it). For college sporting events, concealed carry would be allowed under the Campus Carry Statutes, unless it's otherwise posted IAW 30.06.
In fact, TPC 46.03 specifically states that:
(f) Except as provided by Subsection (e-1), it is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor possessed a handgun and was licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.(*)
This would make carry at the high school sporting event still a 3rd degree felony, whereas the parking lot would not be an offense (unless that's where the school sponsored event was taking place).
(*)(Subsection (e-1) provides an exception for an LTC Holder who inadvertently takes their handgun thru the secured area of an airport, as long as they immediately depart when notified).
Getting back to the case at hand, I believe the shooting happened in the parking lot, so unless the game was being played in the parking lot, I think he should be fine from that standpoint (not opining on whether this was a justified shooting).
I carry my gun in the parking lot of my kids school on a daily basis while the actual school is in session. Can't get much more of a "school sponsored activity" than actually holding classes.
Re: TX: man shot during high school football game
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:46 pm
by srothstein
rotor wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:37 pm
srothstein wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:44 pm
rotor wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:49 pm
I am confused. Isn't it illegal to have a gun at a high school event even if you have a LTC?
Not necessarily. Note that with an LTC, you are only banned from carrying in the buildings. It is doubtful that the JV team was playing football inside a building. And that is without deciding if a stadium is a building or not. I would guess JV teams play on a lower level field with bleachers, not in the big district stadiums.
I am still confused. Are you saying that an LTC holder can carry at a high school football event that is held outside of a building?
Sorry, I had quickly checked 46.035 and forgot the other section. As Mike S. posted, it is illegal to carry where the school sponsored event is going on. And a game would definitely be a school sponsored event.