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I actually learned something...(I know, strange...)

When some of us took the Utah CFP class from "llwatson", a side bar discussion about this issue came up...

She informed me that yes Utah did have a temporary provision during the Salt Lake Olympics to secure their citizens who carried at the venues to secure them while in the facility...

But after the Olympics were over...Bingo...They were gone...

I'm just glad to have that confirmed that it was only a temporary provision for its CFP folks...Since I don't talk much to many credible sources in Utah, I was erroneously under the impresssion that a few facilities carried on this activity...

I still believe it would be good to explore the concept in Texas though...

TxFire wrote:

stevie_d_64 wrote: Nor should in that regard should it be penalized if you are found to be carrying in some place that is posted incorrectly in the first place...

Is there any record of someone being penalized for carrying in a place that was posted non-compliant or are we thinking that this COULD happen somewhere sometime?

No I do not think so...Never someone that has not done something else illegal and it was discovered they were carrying CHL or not...Its like you say COULD happen...Thats what mine (and maybe a few others), big rub in this...

stevie_d_64 wrote: Those that do not, or worse, purposefully post something that is a play on the wording in the law, with the intent to restrict, should be given lawful notice to post properly, or remove the signage...If they do not comply...Well, I believe penalties or punishment is proper...

I guess we'll just have to disagree here. Businesses or others have a legal way to restrict our ability to carry, if they through ignorance or malice post a non 30.06 sign it is unenforceable and should not stop you unless you choose it to. I feel that is sufficient. No need for MORE laws and government intervention here.

And for the most part we do not dissagree there...I honor the intent...Do I like having to accept the stupidity of some business or other entity posting incorrectly, yet knowing that was their intent...

And the legal jeopardy is still overwhelmingly against us??? No...I believe the playing field should in this case be leveled...And no completely new law needs to be passed...If it needs to be amended, so be it...

TxFire wrote:Unfortunately the burden is on us to know the laws regarding posting of signs and what is and is not enforceable. The same is true is we travel out of state. We would need to know the laws and enforcement in that state. I feel we should leave well enough alone. Those that do not know what is or is not enforceable might look into reading that portion of the law. Ignorance of the law is not a defense. Thats my .02 worth.

Yep, you are absolutely correct...The burden IS on us...And I think we all do a very good job in honoring and complying with the law...Sometimes it rubs some of us wrong when we see a business or entity post incorrect signage...And we discuss those issues in a productive and mature manner...And for the most part we honor the intent of the posting...

But your last sentence there speaks volumes...Ignorance of the law is not a defense...

Nor should in that regard should it be penalized if you are found to be carrying in some place that is posted incorrectly in the first place...

Like I've said before, I do not often see incorrect postings, nor many places that get it right...My routine is always on the alert for proper signage...And I will reluctantly respect anyone who posts properly, and be glad that at least they are following the law from their perspective...

Those that do not, or worse, purposefully post something that is a play on the wording in the law, with the intent to restrict, should be given lawful notice to post properly, or remove the signage...If they do not comply...Well, I believe penalties or punishment is proper...

txinvestigator wrote:It is not fair, nor appropriate. The law is simple enough. If it is a valid sign, stay out. If the colors appear to contrast, stay out. If the letters are only 1 7/8 inches tall, stay out.

No argument at all...I'm with you on that...We all pretty much know thats what you are supposed to do...

Why should a private business owner who is not subject to the CHL laws be have a penalty attached if he posts a sign that does not affect a CHL holder?

Because if your going to dance, you should wear the right shoes...Otherwise you will get blisters...

We wear the right shoes...

(this is a horrible analogy, but I figure it may somewhat illustrate the parity between the CHL community and the other side of the coin)

In kind, you will never be able to require a private business to have lockers available for you to secure your weapon if they decide to post 30.06.

Why not??? It works in other states???

And if Texas passed this amendment, would you still think it to be wrong???

I just don't see it as a violation of a person, business or other facilities First Amendment right, that if in this case, you wish to restrict an activity per the law, that allows you to do so, you must follow the law in restricting that activity entirely, or not have that restriction be binding...

I teach these CHL holders, and I can tell you I don't want them handling their weapons in and out of a locker in public places.

I know you do, and I have heard nothing but fantastic things about your methods and reasonings, they are well founded...

I really do understand what you and Nitrogen say in regards to First Amendment rights and private business rights...

But, in the example of the other thread I posted as a reference, there just doesn't appear to me from that example that after all these years, that businesses and other institutions cannot either get it right, or be compelled to do so, or not post (restrict) at all...

If we are required to follow the law, they should follow the guidelines and format that the law gives them the right to do so...

Not dance around the parsing of words and phrases, and post something they know is incorrect, just to cause a little hiccup every now and then when someone in our community correctly questions this...

I am of course (for years) part of the crowd that says to not stir up the hornets nest when you see an incorrect sign...But in this case, I think it was allowed to fester, till someone questioned it...FWIW...

Maybe I value and trust your judgement over entities that push as hard as we do in cases like this...Yet, we still see someone who does something like this, and we tell people to "ignore it"...

I say lets get it all out on the table, get it cleared up, and move on...Those that comply properly, we bypass in our lives...Those that choose to not restrict, well we have the freedom to choose that path as well...


No...I'm no wearing my tin-foil cap, thank you very much...

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... php?t=4282

Either post it correctly per the law, or apply proper corrective measures...

If not...Fines and or imprisonment...

I believe that is a fair application of the law...