Search found 11 matches

by HerbM
Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:49 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?
Replies: 134
Views: 8366

Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

For those interested in these ideas, you might wish to check out this event:

CTCTG 5th Anniversary Force-on-Force Gunfighting Event WACO May 17, 2014
posting.php?mode=post&f=8


During the first portion, I will be covering the material from the presentation AND guiding you through the drills so that you can internalize the method and prove to yourself that it works.

Avoiding Criminal Attacks and Knife Defense with Herb Martin. This course will consist of two parts.

The first "Avoiding Criminal Assaults" will give you the knowledge and skills to defuse 85% of criminal assaults BEFORE they happen. Sometimes being alert isn't enough. Students will learn a simple and effective standardized procedure for what to do AFTER they have been chosen as a victim but BEFORE the attack actually happens.

The second part, "Knife Defense: Connectivity and Disarms", students will learn to significantly improve their ability to respond effectively to sudden knife attack and be introduced to the Austin Combatives Method of knife defense. This class is appropriate for all skill and ability levels.


If you don't like *MY* classes then check out the announcement page and find one of the others that does suit you.
by HerbM
Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:02 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?
Replies: 134
Views: 8366

Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

Right, ELB.

And those who reviewed the presentation carefully will recall that this is mentioned -- the situation may require condensing the "back off sequence" as necessary to get up with a dynamic attack that is already underway, or even an approach that is already too close for security and comfort.

We still practice it -- and find that BACK OFF! is the best thing to yell even if the trigger is being depressed.

Yelling HELPS -- it helps you, it helps make the criminal rethink his actions, and it helps the witnesses understand the situation and that you are not the aggressor.

It costs nothing, not even time in this latter must urgent case.

In any case where there is any time left, it might change the entire dynamic, cause the criminal to hesitate, or bring assistance from witnesses or bystanders.

Hope that you don't yell something politically incorrect while you are legitimately defending your life with a firearm -- and that no one catches it in a recording.

It may not matter how justified you were, that surprise exclamation may come back to haunt you or to even endanger your freedom.

PPPPPP

Prior Practice Presents Pitifully Poor Performance.

In general, you will fight the way you practice -- and if you don't practice you will likely fight very poorly -- or at best somewhat randomly.

Remember, the folks who tested (only part of) these methods in South Africa, reported 85% of criminal assaults were prevented just by the Back Off sequence.

How many of you carry a firearm because you never expect to need it? Whatever your expectation, wouldn't you prefer to need it 85% less (on average)?

For my part, being "average" is not my goal -- some people in South Africa must have done BETTER than average. So my goal, for myself and all of my friends is to be: EXCELLENT

No plan survives first contact with the enemy, yet having a plan is still a key element in surviving enemy contact.

Go Home Safe!


--
HerbM
by HerbM
Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:22 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?
Replies: 134
Views: 8366

Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

Avoiding Criminal Assaults -- Presentation at 17th Annual Texas Concealed Handgun Association (TCHA) conference in Kerrville
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

PowerPoint and PDF for download if you are interested.

Go Home Safe!

I had a great time delivery this presentation to the very fine group of people at the TCHA Convention. Most of the folks there were CHL Instructors and it is safe to say the presentation was very well received.

So if you are interested in the full story of how we do this in our Austin Combatives & Self-Defense group please take a look.

You are welcome to use or share it.

It was also my great pleasure to meet our forum host, Charles Cotton.
by HerbM
Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:27 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?
Replies: 134
Views: 8366

Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

He does however have a point.

The Avoiding Criminal Attacks method(s) we use and teach are designed to work pretty much ANYWHERE, including stairwells and elevators as well as deep in the woods or on a lonely hiking trail.

There are some physical modifications that are inevitable depending on the geography, buildings/wall, objects and other obstacles. (E.g., you can't easily circle if you meet someone in a NARROW stairway.)

Also, the 3 part Back Off will be "telescoped" into whatever is necessary, e.g., moving straight to SHOUTING, "BACK OFF!" if the threat is closer than we can allow.

We pass close to people all of the time, even in open areas. The standard example is returning to your car after shopping at the grocery store, mall, or big box store.

We can't shoot everyone -- not even everyone who deserves it. :)

We can't run from everyone -- at least not all of the time.

We need methods that are:

1) Clear and unambiguous
2) Easily trainable and easily teachable
3) Work under EXTREME stress even if we haven't practiced lately
4) Keep US THINKING, and the bad guys OFF GUARD and OFF SCRIPT
5) Give us every practical tactical, legal, moral, ethical, and psychological advantage
6) Can be shown to work in both practice (against our friends) and in common everyday life

What I am offering you meets those requirements and was tested in the high risk environment of "everyday life" of urban South Africa.

No one would plan to be sloppy about learning to shoot -- so please don't be sloppy or flippant about learning to AVOID SHOOTING.
by HerbM
Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:44 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?
Replies: 134
Views: 8366

Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

03Lightningrocks wrote:HerbM... I have been thinking about your post earlier and will admit to reconsidering some of what you had to say. After reading it again, I am thinking I like the "no thank you" response as well as "not interested" but am wondering why a person that would say something like "but you haven't heard what I was going to say" wouldn't respond the same to "no thank you".
That's a good question because the answer isn't obvious to most people:

This is mostly due to the "non sequitur" or "break state" of the "no thank you" FAILING TO FIT the expected script.

It creates a sort of "huh?" moment in the person's mind and breaks the flow of the script they had PLANNED because it doesn't fit any expectation.

There may be other effects, such as people are conditioned to stopping when someone says "No thank you." (E.g., "Want some more coffee? No, thank you." Few people will try to press the coffee on you.

Another thing is that people who sell, panhandle, or approach pretending to be doing these condition themselves to deal with "not interested". (We might lose some of the effect if EVERYONE responded "No thank you.")

Bottom line is that it works in practice.

03Lightningrocks wrote: I see your point of using the words "I think" instead of just saying "I said no thank you" possibly coming off as unsure in some way but the way I say it, the words I think tend to come across as a reinforcement rather than a question. But now that I am reconsidering it, there is probably a benefit to just repeating "no thank you".
Excellent. Just consider it and give it a try. It's not a big difference but the key is that it does give you a little more effect, it keeps you OUT OF THE CONVERSATION, and it's FASTER.

If this is a criminal approach you want every advantage you an obtain, even tenths of a second may count.

Criminals don't care what you say, just as long as you STAY INVOLVED in the conversation.

Again, we've tested it many times and simpler, shorter, clearer, with no "ad libs" is better.
03Lightningrocks wrote: I admit that I have had situations where a person has attempted to engage in further conversation after saying something like "not interested" but on the occasions they do this, my response gets pretty aggressive. That has typically been when I simply say, "get away from me" or "don't come any closer". It is rare for me to be caught off guard by an approach. I scan the surroundings as I walk and typically pick up on the tell tale signs that a person has just sized you up for an approach. They even look in my direction from across the street and I am eyeballing them.
Part of the fun is that almost no one (who isn't dangerous) will continue AND they mostly leave with a smile.

You keep a smile on your face, you don't get "pretty aggressive", and your day goes better. I like these effects. YMMV
03Lightningrocks wrote:
The next bum or what ever that acts like they are about to head my way, I will give your way a try. Worse case scenario is that it doesn't work and I have to blast the guy... J/K.

Anyway... Thanks for the input. It never hurts to evaluate others input. I shouldn't have responded so aggressively. I got overly defensive about my methods. :cheers2:
As long as no one volunteers to be shot, try it a few times -- the "no thank you" especially is a timing thing.

That's why both USING IT and PRACTICING "no thank you" on Cold Callers is so effective -- if that goes bad you just hang up.

I get a kick out of the effect of no thank you on cold callers -- 99% of *THEM* just hang up.
by HerbM
Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:29 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?
Replies: 134
Views: 8366

Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

CHLLady wrote:
...If you keep approaching after I have told you to stop, or used the word no, and you still keep approaching, I will react by the best method available to me depending on time and distance.

Thank you HerbM for your insights! It is much appreciated! :thumbs2:
Excellent -- that is a critical and key point.

Every time someone "discounts the word no" (this from Gavin de Becker) or "crosses a tripwire" they are increasing my belief that they are going to do me harm and decreasing the chance that they are harmless.


Anyone who can "walk through my best Back Off sequence" is a DEFINITE CANDIDATE THREAT. They may not be dangerous but at this pont I am definitely THINKING they are dangerous until proven otherwise or the situation changes.

Deaf or NOT, they WILL FEEL THE FORCE OF MY REFUSAL and SEE MY COMMITMENT -- most people are GOING TO HEAR IT TOO.

If I can't make the potential threat jump, stop, or at least "widen his eyes" then *I* am not doing it right OR:

This person is in a significantly ALTERED STATE.

Either drunk, drugged, mentally unbalanced, in fear of their own (they might be fleeing a criminal), mentally challenged, or he has WORKED HIMSELF UP to do something like COMMIT A VIOLENT CRIME.

Conducting a hold up is much like "speaking on stage" for the first time -- the criminal must "get up confidence", and most people don't find that trivial.

You have to GO FOR IT. Again, hard to do -- like jumping off the high dive.

All but the most experienced criminals or the most sociopathic must work up to it or drug themselves into it.
by HerbM
Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:00 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?
Replies: 134
Views: 8366

Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

train460 wrote:I am new here but would like to throw in my 02.
Most comments made above are about what is percieved an actual attack, ie "BG". But in my mind he is not a bad guy "legally" until i either, see a weapon, experience aggresion either facial expressions or with his movements, or am physically attacked.
Just a few examples but my point is that just because someone comes up to you for whatever reason, they MIGHT not be a BG but say a deaf panhandler wanting to hand you a little card that says "I AM DEAF", then looking for a handout. By you saying backoff etc may not have been understood and then you assume the wrong intentions and bang, because he did not "back off" and you are going to jail.
I feel that, if approached in anyway other than being charged i would put up my left hand in a universal signal to stop, yell loud STOP with my body turned that my right hand is gripping my sidearm, but still holstered. If that person still approaches i feel that they would almost have to grab my left hand for me to then pull and discharge. Of course their demaner would play a BIG part in the scenario of course.
just my 02 of course.
Thoughts?
Michael
Sorry, but you have missed the point. Perhaps you didn't follow my original link and read the full description of the method and more thorough explanation.

Avoiding Criminal Attacks
http://www.meetup.com/AustinCombatives/ ... d/10163916

This method is not ONE THING, but a series of several things designed to improve your chances on several counts: morality, ethically, psychologically, legally, and of course TACTICALLY.

The sequences of "Back Off" alone will likely get through to any deaf person, but the body language that accompanies a properly delivered sequence is almost guaranteed to do so.

Moving 90 degrees as you start this helps to uncover intent by forcing the potential threat to re-orient and track you.

Raising (both of) your hands places a barrier between you and the possible threat as well as signaling for him to stop and indicating non-verbally you own peaceful intent and desire to be left alone.

As I also mentioned in later in the thread, you can practice this -- and see the effects if you do it correctly -- against panhandlers even when you have your auto windows rolled up, the radio blaring, and the air conditioner roaring.

Even this way without sound, the proper, "Please Back Off" said with a smile stops almost ALL non-threats. They get it from the non-verbals alone if you deliver it congruently.

They even tend to smile as they turn away or pass you on -- they get it and are not offended in my extensive experience (years) of using this.


Remember, I both teach this to others which has shown us how to tune this to the near optimum effect, and I have practiced it on the street to ensure it operates as intended.

Learn it and try it before you dismiss it.
by HerbM
Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:30 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?
Replies: 134
Views: 8366

Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

Actually, lightingrocks you are UNDER ANALYZYING it :)

It doesn't matter if the crack head does get your words -- you want him to but you give it your best effort.

All this is for HIM, FOR YOU, and FOR WITNESSES.

And if he ISN"T a crack head but someone who is only a littler altered and understands your meaning through the fog then that is a GOOD THING.

We practice this. We know pretty much how it will go down, whether you practice it or not.

Not practicing it is like expecting to hit what you aim at without proper technique or practice.

I have watched too many beginners get tongue tied at just a LITTLE PRESSURE from the "bad guy".

Come try it. If you are great at it you will know and if not you will know to practice.
by HerbM
Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:38 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?
Replies: 134
Views: 8366

Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

03Lightningrocks wrote:This weekend I was walking toward the bank in downtown San Antonio to get some cash from the ATM. I was being approached by what appeared to be a panhandler but I was not waiting to find out. I simply said. Not interested, go away. He stopped and started to say something. I interrupted and repeated the words... "I think I said to go away!" in a firmer tone. he mumbled something as he walked the other direction. I am betting what he mumbled wasn't thank you. :mrgreen:
This is pretty good.

Having taught this a lot, perhaps you will be receptive if I offer a suggestion to improve this a little?

Leave out the "I think I said...." or even "I said..." or "Man, ..." -- they add nothing, dilute your command (did you say it or not), and most important take up MORE TIME in a situation where seconds can easily count.

Using "Not interrest..." leaves room for argument and criminals just want to ENGAGE YOU; they don't care about WHAT particular just if they can get you into a back and forth.

You say, "Not interested" and they say (something like), "You haven't heard what I said yet", or some such. They ask, "You have the time" and someone responds with "No" and they say, "You have a cell phone, check your phone...."

Avoid playing into the "conversation" game.

One exception that I will use WHEN IT SEEMS it is safe (that is there is enough time and distance based on the context) is a simple, "No Thanks you."

I use this in response to just about anything -- it actually works best when it MAKES NO SENSE. Example: "What time is it?" "No thank you."

It serves as what NLP refers to as a break state; it doesn't play into the aggressor's game; and usually by the time their brain recovers from the non sequitur the moment (and you) has past.

It also starts with NO.

You can try this -- there is a timing component to it -- with Telephone COLD CALLERS and PAN HANDLERS to practice so it is good for something else besides actual criminal approaches. (You get regular chances to practice.)

It will shut down EVERY COLD CALLER if you say this at the right moment -- they don't have a script for this. If you say "not interested" they come back with something like "I am not selling anything we just need your opinion." etc.

I use this (No Thank You) on panhandlers even when I am in my car with the windows up, air conditioning on, and radio playing -- it doesn't even matter if they can't hear me as long as I deliver it with full congruity and intention.

Extra bonus: Most people are actually POLITE about it. Cold callers either thank me or just abruptly hang up themselves. Panhandlers almost invariable SMILE but always move on.


It may seem that I am way picky on these techniques and that is true since I have been practicing, perfecting, and teaching these for about 5 years. (And I also an NLP trainer and hypnotist experience in how humans process language both consciously and unconsciously.

--
HerbM
by HerbM
Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:37 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?
Replies: 134
Views: 8366

Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

The jokes would be funny except that it concerns me that some people reading this might think them serious or actual practice.

It is most effective to have set verbiage to use when avoiding and repelling a criminal attack, and to use it EVEN IF the threat is so close that warning and response must occur together.

I recommend the "BACK OFF!" sequence because it works so effectively UP TO the actual response and trying to insert additional wording in a situation that is already fraught with live threatening fear and peril is just not a good idea.

For a useful way to Avoid Criminal Attacks, please see my outline with some useful detail here: http://www.meetup.com/AustinCombatives/ ... d/10163916

You definitely do NOT want to be saying anything that will not do you service when played back by MSNBC or ABC over the following months as you await the Grand Jury decision or your trial. Seriously.
by HerbM
Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:26 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?
Replies: 134
Views: 8366

Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

I train to yell "BACK OFF" (and actually do this in practice).

Like you (Steve) I probably learned this particular phrase from Tom Sotis who is back in Austin next week for a seminar which I am again attending.

Actually, I practice this as a 3-part order. BEFORE the threat become mahnifest, "Please back off". WHEN the approach begins with a Command, "Back OFF" and finally if the threat is manifest with "BACK OFF!".

Drawing happens during or after that last BACK OFF -- if the threat is a surprise attack then I go IMMEDIATELY to the "BACK OFF!" and the draw as necessary.

Surprisingly this actually require a bit of practice (and refreshers) to get MOST people to do correctly.

--
HerbM

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