New Instructor Training Questions

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Mike S
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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#16

Post by Mike S » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:45 am

jmorris wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:02 pm
Mike S wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:56 am
.........

AJ,
The DPS Instructors will go over their scoring procedure as part of the class, prior to the practical exercise.

Step 1: Account for all 50 rounds. Just counting to ensure all 50 are there. (They do make allowances for what you described, where it's obvious several rounds went through one ragged hole. They will address this, & if they don't please ask the question for your own edification.). If any rounds were 'held' (meaning the shooter didn't fire for whatever reason), missed the green scoring area, or were fired after time elapsed you will need to deduct 5x points for each one at step 2. If there's a malfunction, the shooter must remediate on his/her own & complete the engagement within the time required (if not, anything after the buzzer/time elapsed won't count).

Step 2: Begin at 250 (possible points), then deduct any misses/held rounds/late rounds from step 1. Then deduct 1 point for anything inside the 8 ring. Then deduct 2 points for anything inside the 7 ring. (For scoring purposes, if the hole burns the line (actual hole breaks the line, not paper tears), it counts as the higher score area.). The remaining points is the shooter's score.

Hope this helps.
This must have changed because in my class they just had us count the ones outside the silhouette, then threes, then fours, then fives. Just checked the instructor handout to verify.
I'll check my instructor handout when I get back into town to see what it says, but I'm certain the first step was to account for every round. Using your method will come to the same mathematical solution, provided anything not fired within the time limit (or extra rounds fired during an engagement...) is excluded.

I do distinctly remember SGT Bamsch having multiple targets on display at the Georgetown Community Center during the first Instructor Renewal I had to attend (circa 2013?), & we had to do a practical exercise as a check on learning. He stated there seemed to be some confusion on how to score, to the point they include it in that year's renewal class.


twomillenium
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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#17

Post by twomillenium » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:26 pm

montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am
Congratulations on wanting to become a LTC instructor.

(major hassle finding another LTC instructor willing to do work with you) but you are also required to drive to Georgetown every three years and sit through a half day update course to maintain your instructor credentials. This content could easily be delivered online. But every instructor in the state must bear the burden of traveling to this event.

The DPS firearms instructors are outstanding, and the facility is top notch. Be sure to take some time to view the Texas Rangers memorial in the main hall area of the classroom building.

Have fun!
I guess that would be dependent on your location. In Houston area and DFW there were several instructors that got together to qualify and made an open call to any instructor that would like to join. The major hassle I see is when an instructor is not flexible with his own time.
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AJSully421
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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#18

Post by AJSully421 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:33 am

One more question: do they hand you a certificate at the end of the training? Mail you a certificate or some sort of Trainer ID Card?
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

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KC5AV
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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#19

Post by KC5AV » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:42 am

You leave the training with your certificate.
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montgomery
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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#20

Post by montgomery » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:24 am

KC5AV wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:42 am
You leave the training with your certificate.
Since when? Mine was mailed after I took the class 4 years ago. There is no ID card, just a certificate suitable for framing, with the DPS PDF password on the back.

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Scott B.
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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#21

Post by Scott B. » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:29 pm

AJSully421 wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:33 am
One more question: do they hand you a certificate at the end of the training? Mail you a certificate or some sort of Trainer ID Card?
As stated, they'll mail the certificate to you. Should only take a couple of weeks. Make sure you copy the password on the back before you frame it :lol:
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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#22

Post by Mike S » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:24 pm

montgomery wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:24 am
KC5AV wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:42 am
You leave the training with your certificate.
Since when? Mine was mailed after I took the class 4 years ago. There is no ID card, just a certificate suitable for framing, with the DPS PDF password on the back.
We received ours upon completion of the range qualification in July 2012. We hung out at the covered pavilion until they were printed. For the School Safely Course they came in the mail, just like every renewal certificate. Sounds like your experience is the norm now, with certificates being mailed.


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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#23

Post by BBW » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:03 pm

Mike S wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:24 pm
montgomery wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:24 am
KC5AV wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:42 am
You leave the training with your certificate.
Since when? Mine was mailed after I took the class 4 years ago. There is no ID card, just a certificate suitable for framing, with the DPS PDF password on the back.
We received ours upon completion of the range qualification in July 2012. We hung out at the covered pavilion until they were printed. For the School Safely Course they came in the mail, just like every renewal certificate. Sounds like your experience is the norm now, with certificates being mailed.
I just completed the course two weeks ago. They stated in class that the certificates will be mailed out. Would not give a date as to how long it would take, but mine arrived in the mail on Monday. So a little less than two weeks for me.
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AJSully421
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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#24

Post by AJSully421 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:45 am

Completed the class yesterday, some after-action thoughts:

The DPS Trainers are some great guys, and one gal. The facility is top notch, and I would love some time on the driving track... but that is a different animal.

The PowerPoint from the RSD is ATTROCIOUS! Covering 46.035(b) including (b)(4)(5)(6) and (c) and then not going over subsection (i), which basically voids those locations unless notice is given under 30.06 or .07. Same thing with covering 46.02, but not covering 46.15(b)(6). Lots of incomplete information, and if the instructor does not frequent a forum like this, they will systematically misinform their students. I have run into many LTC holders who would bet you $100 that carrying in a church is illegal, and have never heard of 46.035(i). The Troopers are only presenting what the RSD gives them and they have no control over the content.

Thanks for the heads up on the revolver... I scored 250 on both handguns, but my groups were better with the revolver... maybe it was the single action, but most likely it was having practiced a lot with it to prepare. As has been said, there is absolutely sufficient time to thumb back the hammer on your revolver so long as you have practiced it and know what you are doing. Most of the time, I had the hammer back before the target finished rotating into the firing position (They have a 60 lane turning target system down there, which cost you and me $330,000).

For any new Instructor who reads this later, oil your handgun well, and pay attention to the SAAMI spec ammo requirement. One guy had monarch that would not cycle his micro 1911 more than 50% of the time, another guy brought steel case that was screwing up his M&P, and according to the Troopers, our rally had more ammo issues than they had ever seen... ever. I used Remington UMC and did not have one single issue. Spend the money on good qual ammo.

Carry was allowed at all times if you are licensed, I even asked at the range about my concealed pistol (not the same one that I was qualifying with), and it was fine. At the end of the qual, they even gave time and berm space for anyone to load their carry ammo back in the qual gun and holster it for carry after, so it wasn’t even a “no ask, no tell” situation... legal carry was absolutely allowed.

Certificates are mailed in 10-14 days.

The Best Western in Georgetown was a good place to stay, decent breakfast, and discount rates for anyone attending DPS training was $80 per night, plus taxes and fees came to $90.40 per night.

All in all, a good time. I can’t wait to go back for School Safety.
Last edited by AJSully421 on Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.

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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#25

Post by jmorris » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:49 am

AJSully421 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:45 am
Completed the class yesterday, some after-action thoughts:
...
The PowerPoint from the RSD is ATTROCIOUS! Covering 46.035(b) including (b)(4)(5)(6) and (c) and then not going over subsection (i), which basically voids those locations unless notice is given under 30.06 or .07. Same thing with covering 46.02, but not covering 46.15(b)(6). Lots of incomplete information, and if the instructor does not frequent a forum like this, they will systematically misinform their students. I have run into many LTC holders who would bet you $100 that carrying in a church is illegal, and have never heard of 46.035(i). The Troopers are only presenting what the RSD gives them and they have no control over the content.
,,,
Went Jan 2016. Agree on the PowerPoint. The only way they sorta covered (i) was with a line on the bottom of (b)(4)(5)(6) and (c) slides that said (IIRC) "if posted in accordance with PC 30". When the church slide was up I heard someone behind me exclaim "So you STILL can't carry in a church?" so I asked for them to expand on the PC 30 mention.
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AF-Odin
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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#26

Post by AF-Odin » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:36 pm

AJSully421

Congrats on completing the course. Double 250s are what we all should aspire to. The ammo issue is one I see frequently with my students, to the point that I now require they have brass cased, name brand ammo (none have had issues with the Monarch brass). One of my students previously was trying to shoot steel case in her Glock 42 and had repeated failure to feed. When I provided brass cased ( and it was old Spanish police surplus) she scored a 240 on the re-shoot. Steel case has its place, it is all I shoot in SKS's, AK.s, and even a good bit in my ARs for range work, but, in my experience, many pistols do not like it.

Ditto on the professionalism of the DPS instructors. Had one at my work yesterday giving winter/holiday driving safety classes to Soldiers. Great guy and a retired Army Ranger.
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xeno_texas
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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#27

Post by xeno_texas » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:24 pm

AJSully421 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:45 am
Completed the class yesterday, some after-action thoughts:
I was at this with you. Another note. The weather became a factor in the class schedule. I would say remain flexible and make sure you have everything you need when you get down there, to include all of the ammo.

I will say. I got home and broke Petra, my semi, down.. :shock: All of that rain water had combined with my oil and formed this odd, tea colored, goo on every surface.. I never had a cycling issue, but goodness my girl Petra was a dirty, dirty girl...

I enjoyed the class overall. We had some issues, the RSD slide show is horrible, and AJSULLY is correct. What did they say?? 52 malfuctions? A class record?

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AJSully421
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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#28

Post by AJSully421 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:27 pm

xeno_texas wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:24 pm
AJSully421 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:45 am
Completed the class yesterday, some after-action thoughts:
I was at this with you. Another note. The weather became a factor in the class schedule. I would say remain flexible and make sure you have everything you need when you get down there, to include all of the ammo.

I will say. I got home and broke Petra, my semi, down.. :shock: All of that rain water had combined with my oil and formed this odd, tea colored, goo on every surface.. I never had a cycling issue, but goodness my girl Petra was a dirty, dirty girl...

I enjoyed the class overall. We had some issues, the RSD slide show is horrible, and AJSULLY is correct. What did they say?? 52 malfuctions? A class record?
You are right, they did say 52 stoppages, the most ever in a class, they said.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.

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AJSully421
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Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#29

Post by AJSully421 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:55 pm

By the way, received my certificate in the mail on December 13th, so that is 6 days from the completion of the DPS class, 2 days of which were a weekend. I was pretty surprised that the State Government got anything sent out that quickly.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.

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