Constitutional Carry

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

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extremist
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#31

Post by extremist »

Paladin wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:36 am
If the children are untaught, their ignorance and vices will in future life cost us much dearer in their consequences than it would have done in their correction by a good education.
To penetrate and dissipate these clouds of darkness, the general mind must be strengthened by education.
“Those who expect to be both ignorant and free, expect what never was and never will be.”
—Thomas Jefferson

The anti-gunners are already celebrating 2020 TIME: 2020 gun violence homicides a record year

Biden Begins Gun Control Push

Ignoring current issues like an exploding rate of firearms accidents does not get us to where we want to go. It just provides more ammo to the anti's who paint moderate organizations like the NRA as extremist.
Sorry, your information is wrong. That's the left propaganda. See Colion Noir's latest video:

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louisf1
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#32

Post by louisf1 »

tommyg wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:56 am There are several bills that would allow permit less carry. This is disturbing
there are a lot of people out there that would carry even though they have never fired a gun before.
I take a class occasionally as a refresher. There is always somebody that has no idea of how to use a gun.
I have seen them with the wrong ammunition for a new in the box gun . I saw one candidate reading an
owners manual during the class. These types if carrying are a danger for themselves and those around them.

[PASS WITH CARE and at least need to have proof that they have taken
and passed a basic firearms safety class that includes live fire to carry

louisf1
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#33

Post by louisf1 »

Well at least we won’t have to worry about criminals carrying once we decide to follow this suggestion. I’m sure criminals will stop carrying as soon as we advise them that we don’t feel they have the suggested level of training to do so.
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Paladin
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#34

Post by Paladin »

louisf1 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:52 pm Well at least we won’t have to worry about criminals carrying once we decide to follow this suggestion. I’m sure criminals will stop carrying as soon as we advise them that we don’t feel they have the suggested level of training to do so.
Historically we've seen untrained criminals have a lot of FAILS with firearms... One robbery victim survived due to the criminal loading the wrong cartridge in his revolver. Other criminals have improved the world with self-inflicted "catastrophic castration" tucking their gun into the front of their pants, or criminals shooting each other in force-on-force robbery practice. You can't make this stuff up! :lol::
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#35

Post by crazy2medic »

Paladin wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:43 pm
louisf1 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:52 pm Well at least we won’t have to worry about criminals carrying once we decide to follow this suggestion. I’m sure criminals will stop carrying as soon as we advise them that we don’t feel they have the suggested level of training to do so.
Historically we've seen untrained criminals have a lot of FAILS with firearms... One robbery victim survived due to the criminal loading the wrong cartridge in his revolver. Other criminals have improved the world with self-inflicted "catastrophic castration" tucking their gun into the front of their pants, or criminals shooting each other in force-on-force robbery practice. You can't make this stuff up! :lol::
I detect Darwin at work in the criminal world!
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention
Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here- John Parker
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Flightmare
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#36

Post by Flightmare »

While not aimed at young children, it would appear that Utah is looking at offering gun safety classes for highschool kids.
https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/2/16/ ... igh-school
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Paladin
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#37

Post by Paladin »

Flightmare wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:12 pm While not aimed at young children, it would appear that Utah is looking at offering gun safety classes for highschool kids.
https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/2/16/ ... igh-school
Outstanding!!! Blue guns and airsoft or laser replicas can provide quite a bit of training with excellent safety.

Karl Rehn's research on this topic shows how important that is:
Summarizing the Texas data: 93% of the 3.2 million adult gun owners in Texas likely do not train. 4% of them take the mandatory new permit course, at best 3% of them take some kind of NRA course, and only 1%, less than 30K, take any kind of post-CHL level course or shoot any kind of match, including all kinds of pistol, NRA high power, and all the shotgun sports.

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Boxerrider
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#38

Post by Boxerrider »

Grayling813 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:05 pm
Boxerrider wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:33 pm If education is a concern, then it should be addressed in public schools.
Not that many of them would handle it well in reality, but it is their job to educate young folks in good citizenship.
Actually it should be addressed in the home by parents.
True, and I believe at least 40% of the rest of nonsense that has infiltrated the school curricula should be dealt with (or ignored altogether) at home as well.
I do not believe citizens should have to pay to exercise constitutionaly-protected rights. Therefore, if somebody's fear is lack of education, then I will say we already have institutions to provide that.

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Re: Constitutional Carry

#39

Post by Tex1961 »

In 8th grade our history teacher brought a replica flintlock and we all went outside and sans bullets let everyone pour power, a wad and fire it. Can you imagine the freak out if he tried that today. This was around 1974.
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Keith B
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#40

Post by Keith B »

Tex1961 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:57 pm In 8th grade our history teacher brought a replica flintlock and we all went outside and sans bullets let everyone pour power, a wad and fire it. Can you imagine the freak out if he tried that today. This was around 1974.
My 7th grade Physical Science teacher showed us how to reload. He actually had presses for shotgun and brass set up in the Science supply room/office area and would crank out shells in his free time.
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#41

Post by The Annoyed Man »

tommyg wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:56 am There are several bills that would allow permit less carry. This is disturbing
there are a lot of people out there that would carry even though they have never fired a gun before.
I take a class occasionally as a refresher. There is always somebody that has no idea of how to use a gun.
I have seen them with the wrong ammunition for a new in the box gun . I saw one candidate reading an
owners manual during the class. These types if carrying are a danger for themselves and those around them.

[PASS WITH CARE and at least need to have proof that they have taken
and passed a basic firearms safety class that includes live fire to carry
Ok, now do the 1st Amendment. :roll: I cannot disagree strongly enough.

"Shall not be infringed" means exactly what it says. Period. Liberty does not come without risk.

Ever hear of Col. Jeff Cooper? He was a professional firearms instructor, btw, and he certainly agreed with the need for people to be properly trained. But he did NOT agree that the free exercise of the RKBA was dependent upon state-mandated training. He had an interesting quote about liberty, and its differentiation from freedom. They are NOT the same thing. He said:
“It is an uphill struggle, but I wish that we could distinguish more carefully between freedom and liberty. These conditions are not the same, though they are certainly related. Freedom is the absence of restraint—a physical circumstance. Liberty, on the other hand, is a political situation denoting the lawful capability of the citizen to defend himself and his near and dear without interference from the state. Note that the Declaration of Independence forcibly and particularly establishes the blessings of liberty upon ourselves and our posterity. I like to carry a pocket copy of the Declaration, plus the Constitution, in my travels. It is a good thing to have in hand when discussions arise.”
I have highlighted the part relevant to this discussion. ALL gun laws constitute interference from the state. Like I said, liberty is not without risk. You seem to imagine that, if we constrain liberty, it will somehow also magically restrain the freedom of criminals and dunderheads to carry or use firearms. Please show me where ANY law has ever restrained either a criminal or a fool from carrying or using a gun. All that any laws retraining access to the ownership, bearing, or use of firearms have ever accomplished, is to diminish the liberty of the law-abiding without in any way impacting the freedom of criminals and/or fools to behave criminally or foolishly.

And every additional layer of law added on only serves to make the upright and law-abiding jump through more hoops, just to exercise a liberty that is part of their natural birthright as human beings. You assume that it isn’t, and that the state must grant the right before it can be exercised. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The RKBA is not granted by the Constitution; it is enumerated in the Constitution for its protection....... EXACTLY so that neither well-meaning fools or dictators (but I repeat myself) can trample that right into the ground.
My dream is to have lived my life so well that future generations of leftists will demand my name be removed from buildings. BTW, have you noticed that the topographical contours of local lake bottoms seem to have changed and become more rich in aluminum alloys and polymers in the last 10 years?
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#42

Post by Pawpaw »

In high school I was in JROTC. In additon to each of us having an assigned M1 rifle (sans firing pins) we had an indoor .22 rifle range so our rifle team could practice.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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Pawpaw
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#43

Post by Pawpaw »

The Annoyed Man wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:44 am
tommyg wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:56 am There are several bills that would allow permit less carry. This is disturbing
there are a lot of people out there that would carry even though they have never fired a gun before.
I take a class occasionally as a refresher. There is always somebody that has no idea of how to use a gun.
I have seen them with the wrong ammunition for a new in the box gun . I saw one candidate reading an
owners manual during the class. These types if carrying are a danger for themselves and those around them.

[PASS WITH CARE and at least need to have proof that they have taken
and passed a basic firearms safety class that includes live fire to carry
Ok, now do the 1st Amendment. :roll: I cannot disagree strongly enough.

"Shall not be infringed" means exactly what it says. Period. Liberty does not come without risk.

Ever hear of Col. Jeff Cooper? He was a professional firearms instructor, btw, and he certainly agreed with the need for people to be properly trained. But he did NOT agree that the free exercise of the RKBA was dependent upon state-mandated training. He had an interesting quote about liberty, and its differentiation from freedom. They are NOT the same thing. He said:
“It is an uphill struggle, but I wish that we could distinguish more carefully between freedom and liberty. These conditions are not the same, though they are certainly related. Freedom is the absence of restraint—a physical circumstance. Liberty, on the other hand, is a political situation denoting the lawful capability of the citizen to defend himself and his near and dear without interference from the state. Note that the Declaration of Independence forcibly and particularly establishes the blessings of liberty upon ourselves and our posterity. I like to carry a pocket copy of the Declaration, plus the Constitution, in my travels. It is a good thing to have in hand when discussions arise.”
I have highlighted the part relevant to this discussion. ALL gun laws constitute interference from the state. Like I said, liberty is not without risk. You seem to imagine that, if we constrain liberty, it will somehow also magically restrain the freedom of criminals and dunderheads to carry or use firearms. Please show me where ANY law has ever restrained either a criminal or a fool from carrying or using a gun. All that any laws retraining access to the ownership, bearing, or use of firearms have ever accomplished, is to diminish the liberty of the law-abiding without in any way impacting the freedom of criminals and/or fools to behave criminally or foolishly.

And every additional layer of law added on only serves to make the upright and law-abiding jump through more hoops, just to exercise a liberty that is part of their natural birthright as human beings. You assume that it isn’t, and that the state must grant the right before it can be exercised. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The RKBA is not granted by the Constitution; it is enumerated in the Constitution for its protection....... EXACTLY so that neither well-meaning fools or dictators (but I repeat myself) can trample that right into the ground.
:iagree: Back when the framers wrote, "shall not be infringed", that was very strong language that meant, "keep your cotton picking hands off it."
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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parabelum
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#44

Post by parabelum »

Way to go Montana :cheers2:

“ HELENA — Gov. Greg Gianforte signed a major ‘constitutional carry’ bill Thursday that will let Montanans carry concealed firearms in public settings including banks and bars without a permit, in addition to limiting university system officials’ ability to restrict firearm possession on college campuses. ”

https://montanafreepress.org/2021/02/18 ... -gun-bill/
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KC5AV
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Re: Constitutional Carry

#45

Post by KC5AV »

tommyg wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:56 am there are a lot of people out there that would carry even though they have never fired a gun before.
I hope everybody realizes that there are already people out there carrying all the time without a license, and without any real training.
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