Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

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txkyte
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Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#1

Post by txkyte » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:01 pm

I'm a CHL holder and have a question about this part of the law when I have my handgun in a car and my children come with me.
I keep the handgun hidden at all times, mainly under the seat, but since my kids are in my car a lot, does the below apply since they are under 17? I'm wondering if the word "storing" is for places "other" than a car? Since in my car, it would always be in close proximity to anyone in my car AND unlocked AND loaded.

"While storing a loaded firearm, it must be in a place which cannot be accessed by a child under the age of 17, or secured with a trigger lock if there is reason to know that a child under 17 may gain access to the firearm."


Thanks, Mike

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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#2

Post by suthdj » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:03 pm

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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#3

Post by The Wall » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:08 pm

txkyte wrote:I'm a CHL holder and have a question about this part of the law when I have my handgun in a car and my children come with me.
I keep the handgun hidden at all times, mainly under the seat, but since my kids are in my car a lot, does the below apply since they are under 17? I'm wondering if the word "storing" is for places "other" than a car? Since in my car, it would always be in close proximity to anyone in my car AND unlocked AND loaded.

"While storing a loaded firearm, it must be in a place which cannot be accessed by a child under the age of 17, or secured with a trigger lock if there is reason to know that a child under 17 may gain access to the firearm."


Thanks, Mike
Sounds like you answered your own question. Your home is your castle, and so is your car. Keep the gun on your person, under your control or lock it up.
At all times! Treat it the same as you would a gun in your house in other words.


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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#4

Post by GlassG19 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:10 pm

Can the kids reach under "the" seat from back seat & grab it. I would carry concealed on my 3:30-4:00 position if I were you.
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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#5

Post by cyphertext » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:28 pm

txkyte wrote: "While storing a loaded firearm, it must be in a place which cannot be accessed by a child under the age of 17, or secured with a trigger lock if there is reason to know that a child under 17 may gain access to the firearm."
Am I the only one who thinks a trigger lock on a loaded firearm is a bad idea?

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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#6

Post by TangoX-ray » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:35 pm

cyphertext wrote:
txkyte wrote: "While storing a loaded firearm, it must be in a place which cannot be accessed by a child under the age of 17, or secured with a trigger lock if there is reason to know that a child under 17 may gain access to the firearm."
Am I the only one who thinks a trigger lock on a loaded firearm is a bad idea?

No! I read that, and my eyes got huge. :shock: Though, legally, loaded doesn't necessarily mean chambered.
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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#7

Post by joe817 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:20 pm

txkyte wrote:I'm a CHL holder and have a question about this part of the law when I have my handgun in a car and my children come with me.
I keep the handgun hidden at all times, mainly under the seat, but since my kids are in my car a lot, does the below apply since they are under 17? I'm wondering if the word "storing" is for places "other" than a car? Since in my car, it would always be in close proximity to anyone in my car AND unlocked AND loaded.

"While storing a loaded firearm, it must be in a place which cannot be accessed by a child under the age of 17, or secured with a trigger lock if there is reason to know that a child under 17 may gain access to the firearm." Thanks, Mike
Mike, first of all welcome to the forum. Glad to have you with us.

Secondly, keeping a loaded gun under the driver's seat with children in the car is not a wise idea, in fact a careless idea, IMO. The children do have access to your loaded gun. A supreme no no.

Why wouldn't you have it in a holster on your person, knowing that danger exists? :headscratch
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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#8

Post by crazy2medic » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:53 pm

My first question is why is the gun not on your person in a holster, second question why have your children not been taught to keep their hands off of your guns? I never child proofed my guns, I gun proofed my children!
To answer the other posters question nope your not, I have never used a trigger lock, not like you can ask the BG to wait a minute while you remove the trigger lock on your gun!
Not sure of the age of your children but I'm assuming they are young, teach them now what they should know about firearms, safety, use, etc. I was taught when I was 4, my children were taught to shoot and I demonstrated what a bullet would do when mine were 4.
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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#9

Post by Soap » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:05 pm

crazy2medic wrote:My first question is why is the gun not on your person in a holster, second question why have your children not been taught to keep their hands off of your guns? I never child proofed my guns, I gun proofed my children!
To answer the other posters question nope your not, I have never used a trigger lock, not like you can ask the BG to wait a minute while you remove the trigger lock on your gun!
Not sure of the age of your children but I'm assuming they are young, teach them now what they should know about firearms, safety, use, etc. I was taught when I was 4, my children were taught to shoot and I demonstrated what a bullet would do when mine were 4.
I agree with this but you should also keep your guns stored away from them. Depression is a powerful thing. You never know what is going through someones mind. Your kids may even be bullied and something crazy goes through their mind. You never know. My grandfather got me into guns. I knew the difference and I was taught right, which I'm sure your kids have too. Just don't ever take the chance. The only exception would be for home defense and that would be based on the maturity of the child. Just my unwanted 2 cents.


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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#10

Post by crazy2medic » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:33 pm

Well my kids are grown now, my son is 25, my daughter is 29, I simply never had any issues with them, my son had some overt interest in his mothers .38 but a shooting trip and 50rds took care of that, when he was 14, he had the AR in his closet loaded with 30rds of 60gr vmax for self defense.
Just like teaching them to look both ways before crossing the street, not playing with matches and leaving powertools alone, some rules have no exception and violating those rules will get the strong hand of dad on their little backsides quick
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention
Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here- John Parker


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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#11

Post by thetexan » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:59 pm

The rule is the gun cannot be accessible to a child. Whatever it takes in the universe to accomplish that. Or as little as it takes to accomplish that. Locked are not required.

Inaccessibility is the only requirement. You get to decide what that requires and are responsible.

tex
Texas LTC Instructor, NRA Pistol Instructor, CFI, CFII, MEI Instructor Pilot

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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#12

Post by RedRaiderCHL » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:06 pm

If the weapon is under your immediate control (within wingspan, or on your person) then it doesn't matter. If however, you leave a firearm available in the vehicle with a child under 18, say for instance if you step out of the car for a moment and the child stays in the car, you could be charged criminally. if you have a CHL I would just keep it on your person.
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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#13

Post by Oldgringo » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:18 pm

joe817 wrote:
txkyte wrote:I'm a CHL holder and have a question about this part of the law when I have my handgun in a car and my children come with me.
I keep the handgun hidden at all times, mainly under the seat, but since my kids are in my car a lot, does the below apply since they are under 17? I'm wondering if the word "storing" is for places "other" than a car? Since in my car, it would always be in close proximity to anyone in my car AND unlocked AND loaded.

"While storing a loaded firearm, it must be in a place which cannot be accessed by a child under the age of 17, or secured with a trigger lock if there is reason to know that a child under 17 may gain access to the firearm." Thanks, Mike
Mike, first of all welcome to the forum. Glad to have you with us.

Secondly, keeping a loaded gun under the driver's seat with children in the car is not a wise idea, in fact a careless idea, IMO. The children do have access to your loaded gun. A supreme no no.

Why wouldn't you have it in a holster on your person, knowing that danger exists? :headscratch
:iagree: emphatically on all points.

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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#14

Post by WildBill » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:00 pm

Oldgringo wrote:
joe817 wrote:
txkyte wrote:I'm a CHL holder and have a question about this part of the law when I have my handgun in a car and my children come with me.
I keep the handgun hidden at all times, mainly under the seat, but since my kids are in my car a lot, does the below apply since they are under 17? I'm wondering if the word "storing" is for places "other" than a car? Since in my car, it would always be in close proximity to anyone in my car AND unlocked AND loaded.

"While storing a loaded firearm, it must be in a place which cannot be accessed by a child under the age of 17, or secured with a trigger lock if there is reason to know that a child under 17 may gain access to the firearm." Thanks, Mike
Mike, first of all welcome to the forum. Glad to have you with us.

Secondly, keeping a loaded gun under the driver's seat with children in the car is not a wise idea, in fact a careless idea, IMO. The children do have access to your loaded gun. A supreme no no.

Why wouldn't you have it in a holster on your person, knowing that danger exists? :headscratch
:iagree: emphatically on all points.
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Re: Carrying in car with kids interpretation?

#15

Post by Mike S » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:09 pm

txkyte wrote:"While storing a loaded firearm, it must be in a place which cannot be accessed by a child under the age of 17, or secured with a trigger lock if there is reason to know that a child under 17 may gain access to the firearm.
Welcome to the forum.

I'd caution against paraphrasing, since the words you used above can be construed to have a slightly different meaning.

Here's what the penal code actually says:

PC §46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD.
(a) In this section:
(1) “Child” means a person younger than 17 years of age.
(2) “Readily dischargeable firearm” means a firearm that is loaded with
ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber
.
(3) “Secure” means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm;
or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.

The reason I mention this is that 'storing' isn't in the law, but 'securing' is, and securing is a 24/7 responsibility. As all the others have indicated, if it's not on your person it must be secured. It's up to you (as the reasonable person) to figure out how to prevent the unauthorized access of your guns by those that shouldn't.

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