Gun Buster Sign

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WildBill
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Re: Gun Buster Sign

#16

Post by WildBill » Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:05 pm

Tracker wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Bayoutalker wrote:We went to supper tonight and when we turned into the parking lot of the shopping center this sign was posted just as you turn in the drive. This is not a legal sign and I don't believe they can legally make the entire parking lot off limits. Correct me if I am wrong. There is another drive entering the shopping center and there is no sign posted at the second entrance.

Should this type of sign be reported?
Report it to whom? This sign is NOT illegal. It is not enforceable, but it is not illegal to post it.

If you were to report it to the shopping center they might decide to post a proper sign.

If the sign was posted on a government owned building it would be a different matter.

IMO, keep it to yourself. :tiphat:
Since the sign has no legal standing why would it be a different matter if it's government owned and it doesn't refer to section 30.06? The reason I asked, and haven't gotten an answer, is because Dallas has this type of sign on all of its Love Field Airport's main entrances (for the unsecured areas).
It is not legal for government owned buildings to be posted. I believe that this applies to any type of gun buster sign, but IANAL. :tiphat:

I believe that the signs at Love Field have been discussed in another thread.
GC §411.209. WRONGFUL EXCLUSION OF CONCEALED HANDGUN
LICENSE HOLDER.
(a) A state agency or a political subdivision of the state may not provide notice
by a communication described by Section 30.06, Penal Code, or by any sign
expressly referring to that law or to a concealed handgun license, that a license
holder carrying a handgun under the authority of this subchapter is prohibited
from entering or remaining on a premises or other place owned or leased by
the governmental entity unless license holders are prohibited from carrying a
handgun on the premises or other place by Section 46.03 or 46.035, Penal Code
NRA Endowment Member


treeman
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Re: Gun Buster Sign

#17

Post by treeman » Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:24 pm

This sign would have no affect on either my concealed carrying or my shopping at this particular shopping center. I consider it just a "feel good" sign for someone not really concerned about the carrying of guns. If, however, one or several of the stores in the shopping center posted legitiment signs, I would avoid those particular businesses - and try to let the particular owner know why if I liked the store.

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VoiceofReason
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Re: Gun Buster Sign

#18

Post by VoiceofReason » Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:50 pm

Since it is in a common area, how is one to know who posted it?

It may have been placed there by someone not authorized to do so.
God Bless America, and please hurry.
When I was young I knew all the answers. When I got older I started to realize I just hadn’t quite understood the questions.-Me


Tracker
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Re: Gun Buster Sign

#19

Post by Tracker » Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:20 am

WildBill wrote:
Tracker wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Bayoutalker wrote:We went to supper tonight and when we turned into the parking lot of the shopping center this sign was posted just as you turn in the drive. This is not a legal sign and I don't believe they can legally make the entire parking lot off limits. Correct me if I am wrong. There is another drive entering the shopping center and there is no sign posted at the second entrance.

Should this type of sign be reported?
Report it to whom? This sign is NOT illegal. It is not enforceable, but it is not illegal to post it.

If you were to report it to the shopping center they might decide to post a proper sign.

If the sign was posted on a government owned building it would be a different matter.

IMO, keep it to yourself. :tiphat:
Since the sign has no legal standing why would it be a different matter if it's government owned and it doesn't refer to section 30.06? The reason I asked, and haven't gotten an answer, is because Dallas has this type of sign on all of its Love Field Airport's main entrances (for the unsecured areas).
It is not legal for government owned buildings to be posted. I believe that this applies to any type of gun buster sign, but IANAL. :tiphat:

I believe that the signs at Love Field have been discussed in another thread.
GC §411.209. WRONGFUL EXCLUSION OF CONCEALED HANDGUN
LICENSE HOLDER.
(a) A state agency or a political subdivision of the state may not provide notice
by a communication described by Section 30.06, Penal Code, or by any sign
expressly referring to that law
or to a concealed handgun license, that a license
holder carrying a handgun under the authority of this subchapter is prohibited
from entering or remaining on a premises or other place owned or leased by
the governmental entity unless license holders are prohibited from carrying a
handgun on the premises or other place by Section 46.03 or 46.035, Penal Code
that's just it, these signs don't reference 30.06. So if Love isn't violating the 30.06 law by posting them then any city hall can post them....as a bluff or a means to scare the LTC holder. Weekend events on city property could do the same and not violate 30.06 law.

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Scott in Houston
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Re: Gun Buster Sign

#20

Post by Scott in Houston » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:39 am

Tracker wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Bayoutalker wrote:We went to supper tonight and when we turned into the parking lot of the shopping center this sign was posted just as you turn in the drive. This is not a legal sign and I don't believe they can legally make the entire parking lot off limits. Correct me if I am wrong. There is another drive entering the shopping center and there is no sign posted at the second entrance.

Should this type of sign be reported?
Report it to whom? This sign is NOT illegal. It is not enforceable, but it is not illegal to post it.

If you were to report it to the shopping center they might decide to post a proper sign.

If the sign was posted on a government owned building it would be a different matter.

IMO, keep it to yourself. :tiphat:
Since the sign has no legal standing why would it be a different matter if it's government owned and it doesn't refer to section 30.06? The reason I asked, and haven't gotten an answer, is because Dallas has this type of sign on all of its Love Field Airport's main entrances (for the unsecured areas).
Because the AG has said that the government cannot discourage the legal LTC holder from carrying, whether it's by 30.06, verbal, or other means.


From user ELB's post in a similar thread:

From Attorney General opinion KP-0047 (underlining added for emphasis):

Chapter 411 of the Government Code was amended in 2015 with the enactment of Senate
Bill 273. Act of May 23, 2015, 84th Leg., R.S., ch. 593, § 1, 2015 Tex. Gen. Laws 2000, 2000-
2001 (codified at TEX. Gov't CODE § 411.209). The primary change under Senate Bill 273 is the.
creation of enforcement measures available against the state or a political subdivision that seeks
to wrongfully exclude a person from carrying a handgun where the person may lawfully do so.
See id.

Section 411.209 provides:
A state agency or a political subdivision of the state may not
provide notice by a communication described by Section 30.06,
Penal Code, or by any sign expressly referring to that law or to
a concealed handgun license, that a license holder carrying a
handgun under the authority of this subchapter is prohibited
from entering or remaining on a premises or other place owned
or leased by the governmental entity unless license holders are
prohibited from carrying a handgun on the premises or other
place by Section 46.03 or 46.035, Penal Code.

https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... kp0047.pdf


The AG cites this again in KP-0049, and more directly addresses the issue of signs or notice that does not use the language of 30.06:

To effectuate the Legislature's intent to prevent governmental entities from seeking to
wrongly exclude handguns from where they are lawful, a court would likely construe section
411.209 to be implicated by any type of notice that seeks to improperly prohibit handguns. Thus,
any oral notice given by a governmental entity regarding the prohibition of handguns, if given
where handguns are lawful, can serve as an improper exclusion in violation in section 411.209.
And the sign about which you inquire that does not use the statutory language but states that the
Center is a "Weapons Free Zone," if placed in an area where handguns are allowed, would
similarly invoke the enforcement mechanism of section 411.209.

https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... kp0049.pdf


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Bayoutalker
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Location: Beaumont, TX

Re: Gun Buster Sign

#21

Post by Bayoutalker » Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:14 pm

treeman wrote:This sign would have no affect on either my concealed carrying or my shopping at this particular shopping center. I consider it just a "feel good" sign for someone not really concerned about the carrying of guns. If, however, one or several of the stores in the shopping center posted legitiment signs, I would avoid those particular businesses - and try to let the particular owner know why if I liked the store.
I went by there again today to see if any other entrance had a sign posted and of the 3 this was the only one. I drove by most of the businesses and I only saw one that had an .07 sign and no .06. By the information I could find this business is owned by the same entity as the shopping center. This makes me wonder who actually posted the sign. If they did not want guns on the premises why would they only post .07 on their own business?
Cliff H.
Beaumont, TX


Soccerdad1995
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Re: Gun Buster Sign

#22

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:01 pm

The sign has no legal validity. Moreover, I cannot even figure out the intent of the sign. It says that "all weapons" are banned, but the most potent weapon I own is my vehicle and the parking lot appears to be specifically designed for the storage of vehicular weapons.

The best I can tell is that this is an attempt at a joke, but I don't get the humor.

My advice - Don't read too much into it. Just carry away if you choose to go there.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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