Question on 30.06 posting

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tenke56
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Question on 30.06 posting

#1

Post by tenke56 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:36 am

I went to the Ft Worth gun show at the Will Rogers Collaseaum today and they had a 30.06 and 30.07 sign posted. The last show I went to did now have the signage and I thought it was not legal to post it anymore. I mentioned it to one of the guys at the door and he said he was giving a ruling that he could post it. I didn't think anything came down from the AG on it. Did something change recently?

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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#2

Post by Pawpaw » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:42 am

The AG recently put out an opinion that a governmental entity could not be held responsible if someone who rents or leases a facility posts.

IMHO, that means that the gun show can post, but it is still unenforceable. Of course, you might have to make that argument in court.
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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#3

Post by rotor » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:00 pm

In my community the local gun show is on city owned property. In March for the first time ever the show was posted 30.06 and 30.07. I did not attend, I contacted the city manager and he subsequently contacted the gun show promoter and told him that he could not post 30.06 and 30.07. Documents by pictures were taken.The last show, in August, was NOT posted. I did remind the city manager just before the show to reinforce the no signage was allowed. He actually contacted me after the show to confirm that the show was not posted.

As far as I know even if it is rented and on city owned property it can not be posted. Don't know where the AG said different. Another way to fight these is to use Facebook and social media. Write a review of the show. LTC holders may hold back their dollars.

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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#4

Post by Pawpaw » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:20 pm

Here's the AG opinion: https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... kp0108.pdf

While the original question was about a non-profit organization, the AG states in his opinion "any private entity".

Basically, as my non-lawyer brain reads it, it can't be posted, but if they do, no one will be held accountable.
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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#5

Post by rotor » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:31 pm

Pawpaw wrote:Here's the AG opinion: https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... kp0108.pdf

While the original question was about a non-profit organization, the AG states in his opinion "any private entity".

Basically, as my non-lawyer brain reads it, it can't be posted, but if they do, no one will be held accountable.
Thank you for that Pawpaw. So it appears that if the government agency leases the property to some one other than a government agency they can post 30.06-30.07 but those signs may not be valid. The government agency though could not be fined. IANAL but that's how I interpret that.


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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#6

Post by crazy2medic » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:06 pm

Just left the Ft Worth Gun Show..Grrrr!

But did find a mag holder for my dbl stack .45 mags
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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#7

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:21 pm

These signs have the same impact as me posting a sign at my front door that says "Pursuant to Texas penal code 12.12 liberal thought is banned on these premises. Any liberal who enters these premises is guilty of a felony and will be hanged by the neck until dead."

In other words, the Ft Worth gun show signage is stupid, ignorant and pointless, along with dispensing legal advice that the sign poster should know to be inaccurate. According to the Texas AG, there is nothing wrong with doing this. But the sign is also not enforceable. Carry away and be safe.
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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#8

Post by rocinante » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:07 pm

Didn't the AG opinion refer to properties leased at "arms-length"? That is, the lessee has full control of the property? I'm not sure a gun show would count for that, unless there were no "city" staff present at all (e.g. management, security, janitorial), and the city did not impose any rules or control over the lessee activities beyond what would normally show up in a business property lease.

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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#9

Post by TexasTornado » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:18 pm

Pawpaw wrote:Here's the AG opinion: https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... kp0108.pdf

While the original question was about a non-profit organization, the AG states in his opinion "any private entity".

Basically, as my non-lawyer brain reads it, it can't be posted, but if they do, no one will be held accountable.

This really needs to be cleared up in the next legislative session. Owners should be responsible for signage on their buildings regardless of the current tenants. Put it in the leasing agreements...not rocket science.
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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#10

Post by ScottDLS » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:18 pm

rocinante wrote:Didn't the AG opinion refer to properties leased at "arms-length"? That is, the lessee has full control of the property? I'm not sure a gun show would count for that, unless there were no "city" staff present at all (e.g. management, security, janitorial), and the city did not impose any rules or control over the lessee activities beyond what would normally show up in a business property lease.
I agree. In this opinion the lessee had exclusive use of the facility for its offices and business. It was not a multiple use venue like a convention center or stadium. I think we should continue to challenge Ft. Worth on this...as well as ignoring the invalid notice.
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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#11

Post by bblhd672 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:28 pm

I was at Ft. Worth gun show this weekend as well. Wasn't happy about having to walk back to my car and leave my ammo there after the police officer zip tied my pistol.

Really annoying that Premiere Gun Shows says on their website that your gun is welcome, but not tell you that you cannot open or concealed carry there.

I enjoyed walking the floor but not sure that I will go to a Premiere show again if they don't publicly clarify their position on carrying inside the show.
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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#12

Post by rotor » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:35 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
rocinante wrote:Didn't the AG opinion refer to properties leased at "arms-length"? That is, the lessee has full control of the property? I'm not sure a gun show would count for that, unless there were no "city" staff present at all (e.g. management, security, janitorial), and the city did not impose any rules or control over the lessee activities beyond what would normally show up in a business property lease.
I agree. In this opinion the lessee had exclusive use of the facility for its offices and business. It was not a multiple use venue like a convention center or stadium. I think we should continue to challenge Ft. Worth on this...as well as ignoring the invalid notice.
Do you think the government agency could be fined in the gun show example? My city manager did get the offending signs removed from our local gun show.

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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#13

Post by ScottDLS » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:41 pm

rotor wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
rocinante wrote:Didn't the AG opinion refer to properties leased at "arms-length"? That is, the lessee has full control of the property? I'm not sure a gun show would count for that, unless there were no "city" staff present at all (e.g. management, security, janitorial), and the city did not impose any rules or control over the lessee activities beyond what would normally show up in a business property lease.
I agree. In this opinion the lessee had exclusive use of the facility for its offices and business. It was not a multiple use venue like a convention center or stadium. I think we should continue to challenge Ft. Worth on this...as well as ignoring the invalid notice.
Do you think the government agency could be fined in the gun show example? My city manager did get the offending signs removed from our local gun show.
I'd like to think so. If I get around to it I'll file a complaint with the City Attorney and AG. I went earlier this year and it wasn't posted with 30.06/7.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#14

Post by TexasTornado » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:47 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
rotor wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
rocinante wrote:Didn't the AG opinion refer to properties leased at "arms-length"? That is, the lessee has full control of the property? I'm not sure a gun show would count for that, unless there were no "city" staff present at all (e.g. management, security, janitorial), and the city did not impose any rules or control over the lessee activities beyond what would normally show up in a business property lease.
I agree. In this opinion the lessee had exclusive use of the facility for its offices and business. It was not a multiple use venue like a convention center or stadium. I think we should continue to challenge Ft. Worth on this...as well as ignoring the invalid notice.
Do you think the government agency could be fined in the gun show example? My city manager did get the offending signs removed from our local gun show.
I'd like to think so. If I get around to it I'll file a complaint with the City Attorney and AG. I went earlier this year and it wasn't posted with 30.06/7.
Unfortunately with it being temporary (just for the event weekend) I'm afraid we're going to run into an issue where the building is in compliance when the city responds to the AG. Then not in compliance again for the next show.
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Re: Question on 30.06 posting

#15

Post by gljjt » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:02 pm

rocinante wrote:Didn't the AG opinion refer to properties leased at "arms-length"? That is, the lessee has full control of the property? I'm not sure a gun show would count for that, unless there were no "city" staff present at all (e.g. management, security, janitorial), and the city did not impose any rules or control over the lessee activities beyond what would normally show up in a business property lease.
This is how I understood his opinion. But IANAL.

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