Magnetic Vehicle Mount

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Medley86
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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#16

Post by Medley86 » Tue May 01, 2018 7:54 pm

Friend of mine lives in an apartment complex in Katy, has a metal front door and when he is home he said he keeps his glock 22 on a magnet on the back of the door. From what he said no matter how hard he slams the door the gun doesn't move.
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apostate
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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#17

Post by apostate » Tue May 01, 2018 8:37 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:But back to the first requirement of "carrying" the handgun. The second sentence then says that it is an exception if the handgun was carried in a shoulder or belt holster. So unless the term "carry" changes definition between the first and second sentences of this statute, a gun that is in a belt holster anywhere in your vehicle is either "not carried" because it is not "on or about" your person (say in the back seat maybe), or it is "carried" because it is closer to you, but you then have the exception provided for in the second sentence.
There's ample case law that a handgun under a car seat, in the glove box, or laying on the dashboard is "on or about" ones person. I'm not aware of any case law that says "a shoulder or belt holster" can be strapped to the steering wheel to allow one to legally carry a handgun in plain view in a car. It would be an interesting argument to make in court, provided I'm not the defendant. ;-)


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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#18

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu May 10, 2018 1:12 pm

apostate wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:But back to the first requirement of "carrying" the handgun. The second sentence then says that it is an exception if the handgun was carried in a shoulder or belt holster. So unless the term "carry" changes definition between the first and second sentences of this statute, a gun that is in a belt holster anywhere in your vehicle is either "not carried" because it is not "on or about" your person (say in the back seat maybe), or it is "carried" because it is closer to you, but you then have the exception provided for in the second sentence.
There's ample case law that a handgun under a car seat, in the glove box, or laying on the dashboard is "on or about" ones person. I'm not aware of any case law that says "a shoulder or belt holster" can be strapped to the steering wheel to allow one to legally carry a handgun in plain view in a car. It would be an interesting argument to make in court, provided I'm not the defendant. ;-)
I thought the OC statute actually said that you were OK if you were carrying a gun "on or about" your person and the gun was carried in a shoulder or belt holster. Maybe I am wrong on that. But if not, then the only relevant questions should be whether the gun is in a shoulder or belt holster (s/b very obvious, I think), and whether the gun is carried "on or about" your person, as defined by previous case law. If the answer to that one is "no", then the whole issue is moot since you aren't carrying in the first place. I don't believe that the statute language requires the holster to be physically attached to your body, but I could be wrong. This all assumes that we are talking about a handgun, and it is not concealed, and you have an LTC.

I conceal my guns while in a car, unless I am OC'ing, so this is a bit of a moot point. But it becomes relevant when I take the snap on holster from under my seat and attach it as I am exiting the vehicle. There is a very short time (approximately 1 second) when the gun / holster is visible, is in my hand, but is not attached to my belt. If a LEO happened to be sitting in the parking lot at just the right angle, they might be able to see the gun, which would then make the above distinction more relevant to me.
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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#19

Post by CleverNickname » Thu May 10, 2018 6:36 pm

mloamiller wrote: I have two other issues with something like this you might want to consider:
1. There is no protection for the trigger. How easy would it be when reaching for that gun in a hurry to accidently put your finger inside the trigger guard, pull the trigger and put a hole in your floorboard, possibly your foot?
2. What will happen to the gun if you have an accident?
This. Any method of firearm retention/carry that doesn't cover the trigger is a dumb idea. I guess you could make an exception for a S/A revolver, but carrying an S/A revolver for self-defense would be a dumb idea in and of itself.
oljames3 wrote:When I am driving my wife's Altima, She Who Must Be Obeyed requires that I not scratch the leather seats. I carry my S&W M&P M2.0 9mm 5inch in a Safariland ALS attached to my belt with their Quick Locking System. I remove the holstered pistol from my belt before I enter the car and place it in the driver's door pocket. After I exit the vehicle, I reattach the holstered pistol to my belt, at my waist. Works for me.
It may work in the situations you've encountered, but have you considered how well your setup would work in situations which you have not encountered yet? For example, what would happen to the gun if you were in an accident? 1.5 lb of not-very well-secured metal and plastic flying around the cabin wouldn't be the greatest thing. Also, how easy is it to draw the gun from the door pocket? Are you left-handed, or practice shooting left-handed a lot? Because you may have to either draw and shoot with that hand, or take the time to reach over with your right hand, or take the time to swap hands, and you may not have the time. Also, have you considered that off-body carry may result in you losing both your gun and car if someone car-jacks you?


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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#20

Post by RebornJames » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:36 pm

I had an issue where I was stopped for a traffic violation and when the officer approached me I informed her that I was LTC and had a loaded gun iny vehicle. I probably told her prematurely and she flipped out when she asked and I told her it was attached to my dashboard above my right knee. I had a bandana over it so it would not be in plain view. She read me the riot act and threatened to take me to jail and to take away my LTC. I wasn't arrested. And when she was telling me that I should know better and basically that didn't I get informed when I got my license? I explained that it was my understanding that the gun could not be in plain view unless it was in holster. Any thoughts?


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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#21

Post by RebornJames » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:53 pm

"rlol"
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 6:29 pm
skeathley wrote:If it is in a belt holster (or not), and can be readily seen from outside of the vehicle, and a LEO sees it, you are going to jail.

A holster means nothing unless it is on your person, or you are in premises under your control, or it is out of sight in your vehicle. This assumes you have an LTC.

:rules:
Do you have a link for this?

Assuming that the relevant code section is 46.035(a), then I think there is a bit of circular logic here.
Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in a shoulder or belt holster by the license holder.
The first sentence says that it is only an offense if a license holder is "carrying" a handgun "on or about the license holder's person", and then "intentionally displays" the handgun in plain view of another person...

So this seems to require the license holder to: 1) "Carry" the handgun. The term "carry" being clarified as being "on or about" the license holder; and then also 2) intentionally display the handgun in plain view of another person. A handgun covered by your leg that becomes visible as you exit the vehicle does not seem to meet this requirement (assuming here that you only exit the vehicle on the instructions of a LEO).

But back to the first requirement of "carrying" the handgun. The second sentence then says that it is an exception if the handgun was carried in a shoulder or belt holster. So unless the term "carry" changes definition between the first and second sentences of this statute, a gun that is in a belt holster anywhere in your vehicle is either "not carried" because it is not "on or about" your person (say in the back seat maybe), or it is "carried" because it is closer to you, but you then have the exception provided for in the second sentence.

Is there another code section that is clearer on this?
I agree that your gun does not need to be in a holster in your vehicle as long as it's not in plain view. It could be under your seat or in the glove compartment or anywhere else as long as it's not in plain view. Unfortunately some officers are looking for any excuse to disarm citizens, they'll take you in because it's not in a holster or otherwise provoke a response from you to arrest you.


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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#22

Post by RebornJames » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:46 pm

apostate wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 8:37 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:But back to the first requirement of "carrying" the handgun. The second sentence then says that it is an exception if the handgun was carried in a shoulder or belt holster. So unless the term "carry" changes definition between the first and second sentences of this statute, a gun that is in a belt holster anywhere in your vehicle is either "not carried" because it is not "on or about" your person (say in the back seat maybe), or it is "carried" because it is closer to you, but you then have the exception provided for in the second sentence.
There's ample case law that a handgun under a car seat, in the glove box, or laying on the dashboard is "on or about" ones person. I'm not aware of any case law that says "a shoulder or belt holster" can be strapped to the steering wheel to allow one to legally carry a handgun in plain view in a car. It would be an interesting argument to make in court, provided I'm not the defendant. ;-)
I was thinking the same thing. Someone (hopefully retired) needs to go to court for having their gun attached to a magnet with a cloth covering it. Then we will see what the courts say, it's clear but the cops are interpret the law to their convenience.


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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#23

Post by RebornJames » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:51 pm

There is an interpretation that says if a handgun is available to you then you are carrying, whether in a glove compartment or under the seat...


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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#24

Post by RebornJames » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:15 pm

:mrgreen: r
rm9792 wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 7:17 pm
I have one in my jeep mounted low on the bottom edge of the console. Black gun against black carpet it is nigh invisible. Jeep is lifted and rides rough pistol has never moved. Those magnets are pretty strong. Get a new instructor.
Problem is the police don't know the law...


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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#25

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:55 pm

RebornJames wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:51 pm
There is an interpretation that says if a handgun is available to you then you are carrying, whether in a glove compartment or under the seat...
That's what I thought. So if the handgun is "available" to me, then I am carrying it. And if it is also in a belt or shoulder holster while also available to me, then I am "carrying" the gun "in a belt or shoulder holster". I don't see how this fails to meet the statutory requirement for OC (assuming one has a valid LTC). In other words, a gun in a belt or shoulder holster that is in plain view should not be an issue, even if that holster is not attached to your body.

Disclaimer - IANAL, and even if I am correct, I can't guarantee that an aggressive LEO / DA might not charge you anyway. It definitely wouldn't be the first time that someone got arrested for something that was legal (if that never happened, we wouldn't really need judges or juries when you think about it).

Also, as I previously noted, there are other reasons why having a gun in plain view in a vehicle is a bad idea. The only time this ever actually is applicable to me is for that split second that I am moving my holstered gun from under the seat before the first snap of my holster makes contact with my belt. And I try to always make sure no one is watching me while I do that.
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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#26

Post by Earl E. Byrd » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:13 pm

RebornJames wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:51 pm
There is an interpretation that says if a handgun is available to you then you are carrying, whether in a glove compartment or under the seat...
If it's inside a glove compartment or under a seat, it's not in plain view. So it's not a problem unless you're a criminal.
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G26ster
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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#27

Post by G26ster » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:18 pm

Wouldn't "Magnetic Vehicle(s)" cause massive traffic jams? Inquiring minds want to know. :biggrinjester:

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Maxwell
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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#28

Post by Maxwell » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:01 am

I tend to agree with SoccerDad.

The key here, and I think this is (maybe) what your instructor wasn't clear on: As an LTC you can carry openly in a belt or shoulder holster. Under the Motorist Protection Act (MTA) you can have a forearm in your car even if you do not have an LTC, BUT, and here's the big issue, it has to be out of sight or concealed. I've heard instructors say "put it on the seat and put a newspaper/hat/other objet over it." I don't agree with that for several reasons but the question comes down to what is concealed? And what will the LEO and/or DA think is concealed.

The choice is yours but I'm not betting my LTC on a potential Class A Misdemeanor. If it's not in the holster on my belt it's inside the console.

:rules: Read and understand the laws. Do not trust someone else's opinion as "my instructor said" will not keep you out of jail!
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Maxwell
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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#29

Post by Maxwell » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:05 am

RebornJames wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:15 pm
:mrgreen: r
rm9792 wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 7:17 pm
I have one in my jeep mounted low on the bottom edge of the console. Black gun against black carpet it is nigh invisible. Jeep is lifted and rides rough pistol has never moved. Those magnets are pretty strong. Get a new instructor.
Problem is the police don't know the law...
"Nigh invisible" is not "out of sight," even with your leg covering it.
IMO and IANAL
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Re: Magnetic Vehicle Mount

#30

Post by Liberty » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:03 pm

Maxwell wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:05 am
RebornJames wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:15 pm
:mrgreen: r
rm9792 wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 7:17 pm
I have one in my jeep mounted low on the bottom edge of the console. Black gun against black carpet it is nigh invisible. Jeep is lifted and rides rough pistol has never moved. Those magnets are pretty strong. Get a new instructor.
Problem is the police don't know the law...
"Nigh invisible" is not "out of sight," even with your leg covering it.
IMO and IANAL
Maybe not, but it might be considered concealed.
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