Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

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Flightmare
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Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#1

Post by Flightmare » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:01 pm

https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... kp0212.pdf

AG was asked about election judges carrying on election day. See the link above for AG opinion. This is good news for those who wish to serve as election judges, but don't want to be unarmed.
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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#2

Post by ScottDLS » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:56 pm

Flightmare wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:01 pm
https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... kp0212.pdf

AG was asked about election judges carrying on election day. See the link above for AG opinion. This is good news for those who wish to serve as election judges, but don't want to be unarmed.
That was a very interesting and detailed opinion. I especially like the 1913 case law cite.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#3

Post by RoyGBiv » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:59 pm

Nice.
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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#4

Post by ELB » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:10 pm

Dang you beat me to it! I just got email notification of it.

My first pass summary is:

Presiding election judge can conceal or open carry in his own polling location when the polling location is on state or local government property, with possible exception of university property ( see below).

Presiding election judge can conceal carry in his own polling location when polling location is on public school property.

Presiding election judge can conceal carry in own polling place on public university property as long as the polling place has not been previously made off limits by university rules.

Presiding election judge can open or conceal carry in his own polling place when polling place is on private property as long as property owner or someone with his apparent authority hasn’t provided effective notice to contrary.
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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#5

Post by Flightmare » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:19 pm

ELB wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:10 pm
Dang you beat me to it! I just got email notification of it.
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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#6

Post by stevie_d_64 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:27 pm

I am an elected official, and Presiding Elections judge for over 25 years..

Although I do promote and support the right to keep and bear arms, I have never been able, per the law as written, in this State to carry concealed or open in my polling location...

Unless you can cite the exemptions in the law that allows a Presiding Judge, and an Alternate Judge (if they choose to do so) to carry appropriately in a polling location...

I reserve the right to be corrected, if I am not up to speed on a current provision in our State Law...

FYI, my polling location is in an Elementary School in my hood... :-)
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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#7

Post by ELB » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:20 pm

stevie_d_64 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:27 pm

Unless you can cite the exemptions in the law that allows a Presiding Judge, and an Alternate Judge (if they choose to do so) to carry appropriately in a polling location...
The attorney general covers that in his opinion;

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/op ... &utm_term=
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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#8

Post by ELB » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:26 pm

So a good follow up question is “If a presiding election judge’s polling place is on private property that has been posted with 30.06 and/or 30.07, but the judge is also a VESP, can he then legally carry past the signs ?”
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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#9

Post by PriestTheRunner » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:39 pm

ELB wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:26 pm
So a good follow up question is “If a presiding election judge’s polling place is on private property that has been posted with 30.06 and/or 30.07, but the judge is also a VESP, can he then legally carry past the signs ?”
Concealed is concealed.... ;)


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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#10

Post by jason812 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:39 pm

It would be nice if us peons could carry while we vote too.

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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#11

Post by Jusme » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:55 pm

jason812 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:39 pm
It would be nice if us peons could carry while we vote too.


:iagree:

Not sure why polling places were added to the list of prohibited places. Other states, allow carry in polling places, and there have been no reported, incidences, of anyone being shot, by a licensed carrier at any of them. If someone wanted to do that, signs, and statutory prohibitions, won't stop them. JMHO
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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#12

Post by ScottDLS » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:11 pm

stevie_d_64 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:27 pm
I am an elected official, and Presiding Elections judge for over 25 years..

Although I do promote and support the right to keep and bear arms, I have never been able, per the law as written, in this State to carry concealed or open in my polling location...

Unless you can cite the exemptions in the law that allows a Presiding Judge, and an Alternate Judge (if they choose to do so) to carry appropriately in a polling location...

I reserve the right to be corrected, if I am not up to speed on a current provision in our State Law...

FYI, my polling location is in an Elementary School in my hood... :-)

The AG's opinion is that when acting in the capacity of a Election Judge, you have the SAME legal authority and responsibility of a District Judge to "enforce order and keep the peace" during voting and until closing at a polling place. A District Judge is exempt from 46.03 if he has a LTC. In Hook v. State (1913), the Texas Criminal Court of Appeals found a Presiding Judge exempt from the predecessor statute to 46.03 while acting in his capacity in a polling place.

The AG and the "case law" is with you, now do you want to be the proverbial "test case"? :rules:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#13

Post by stevie_d_64 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:54 pm

Well...Since you put it that way...

Lemme 'splain a few things to y'all in this forum...

Years ago I did ask this of the County Clerks office in Harris County, and the person giving the recertification of the Law Class wjich is required at each election cycle said this to mh question of our authority and how it relates to the protection and integrity of the election and the polling location...

Yes, we carry the same weight and authority of a State District Judge...But in regards to the actual function, all we are charged with is protectingnthe integrity of the election and its credible operation per election laws...

Our personal ability to carry a firearm within that polling location has always been prohibited, at least for me, because my polling location is in a elementary school withjng the boundaries of the Precinct I represent...

I never could get a straight answer from the County as they err'd on the side of "no"...And I did not feel like I needed to be, as you state, "test case"...

So this occurring long before Ken took office as AG, I had to adhere to the law, as schools are a "no go" zone...

So this is what I plan to do, since no one else here is a Presiding Election Judge, Inwill make a very rare personal call to my friend Charles Cotton, and see what he actually believes is the AG's intent here...

Prudence dictates you should not go blindly into this as the violation is too much to risk for others entertainment...

I shall post our findings soon, and if all goes well, this November, I will either conceal or betrer yet, open carry if its determined that I acting in that capacity as Judge, will carry my firearm...

Regards...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#14

Post by ELB » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:36 pm

stevie_d_64 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:27 pm
...
.. I have never been able, per the law as written, in this State to carry concealed or open in my polling location...
In re-reading the AG's opinion, it appears it may have been legal for the presiding election judge to carry at his own polling station for well over 100 years, per Hooks vs State. ;-)
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Re: Carry in Texas polling place? it depends

#15

Post by ScottDLS » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:56 pm

stevie_d_64 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:54 pm
Well...Since you put it that way...

Lemme 'splain a few things to y'all in this forum...

Years ago I did ask this of the County Clerks office in Harris County, and the person giving the recertification of the Law Class wjich is required at each election cycle said this to mh question of our authority and how it relates to the protection and integrity of the election and the polling location...

Yes, we carry the same weight and authority of a State District Judge...But in regards to the actual function, all we are charged with is protectingnthe integrity of the election and its credible operation per election laws...

Our personal ability to carry a firearm within that polling location has always been prohibited, at least for me, because my polling location is in a elementary school withjng the boundaries of the Precinct I represent...

I never could get a straight answer from the County as they err'd on the side of "no"...And I did not feel like I needed to be, as you state, "test case"...

So this occurring long before Ken took office as AG, I had to adhere to the law, as schools are a "no go" zone...

So this is what I plan to do, since no one else here is a Presiding Election Judge, Inwill make a very rare personal call to my friend Charles Cotton, and see what he actually believes is the AG's intent here...

Prudence dictates you should not go blindly into this as the violation is too much to risk for others entertainment...

I shall post our findings soon, and if all goes well, this November, I will either conceal or betrer yet, open carry if its determined that I acting in that capacity as Judge, will carry my firearm...

Regards...
The AG opinion seems to address your situation along with the case law from Hook v. State. That's really about all you're going to get without being the proverbial "test case". You have previously asked the County Clerks office and got one answer and the AG seems to be saying something different, while also providing his legal reasoning. You can ask a private attorney (Mr. Cotton) or if you really want to know, you could show the AG opinion to your County Prosecutor and get his/her take. That would be the person prosecuting you, so probably the best place to start. If the DA says no, I wouldn't do it, because he/she could bring the charges, even if they ultimately lost.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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