Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

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SickSilverado
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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#16

Post by SickSilverado » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:38 pm

This may be a good thing sort of right? The left claims the immigrant/hispanic/non-american crowd is under attack from all sides. Surely they wouldn't disarm the people they care about most...right? Or atleast not throw them in jail over some outrageous gun law.


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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#17

Post by equin » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:38 pm

SickSilverado wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:17 pm
This came from a few of the people around me at the gun counter and cashier. One said after the El Paso shooting they have to watch out. Another said Trump was sending the Klan to get Mexicans. Another said she just didn't want to be the only one without a gun. I feel bad, these people are honestly afraid that they're under attack. But it seems like a lot of them don't have a clue about guns or how to be safe. I was that guy at one point but I was aware of it and quickly sought training and advice.
My wife is a naturalized US citizen originally from Mexico. After media reports of the manifesto and implied intent behind the killings, this is exactly how my wife now feels. She hates guns and won’t even let me clean mine when she’s around, but her fear has her wanting to get her own handgun, LTC and training. It’s sad that it took this horrific crime to get her to want better prepare herself for self-defense, but at least it helped wake her up to the evil realities of this world.
Ed


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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#18

Post by equin » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:53 pm

SickSilverado wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:38 pm
This may be a good thing sort of right? The left claims the immigrant/hispanic/non-american crowd is under attack from all sides. Surely they wouldn't disarm the people they care about most...right? Or atleast not throw them in jail over some outrageous gun law.
I feel this is one of the ironies of the Left’s gun control agenda. Many legal immigrants and American citizens of Hispanic origin feel under attack and scapegoated. The Left may tend to capitalize on this fear. And yet, whether the fear is warranted or not, the Left’s gun control agenda may unnecessarily deny them the opportunity to arm themselves for protection.

Now, before I’m accused of generalizing how Hispanics may feel, I’m an American citizen of Puerto Rican origin and my wife is a naturalized American citizen of Mexican origin. I’m basing my comments on conversations with Hispanic friends and family members.

As an aside, I found it odd that in a Shall-Issue state like Texas, no LTC holder was available or willing to engage the El Paso shooter when the shooting began. I can’t say what I would’ve done had I been there and carrying. But I wonder if more lives could’ve been saved if an LTC holder would’ve engaged the shooter.
Ed


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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#19

Post by K.Mooneyham » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:37 am

equin wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:53 pm
SickSilverado wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:38 pm
This may be a good thing sort of right? The left claims the immigrant/hispanic/non-american crowd is under attack from all sides. Surely they wouldn't disarm the people they care about most...right? Or atleast not throw them in jail over some outrageous gun law.
I feel this is one of the ironies of the Left’s gun control agenda. Many legal immigrants and American citizens of Hispanic origin feel under attack and scapegoated. The Left may tend to capitalize on this fear. And yet, whether the fear is warranted or not, the Left’s gun control agenda may unnecessarily deny them the opportunity to arm themselves for protection.

Now, before I’m accused of generalizing how Hispanics may feel, I’m an American citizen of Puerto Rican origin and my wife is a naturalized American citizen of Mexican origin. I’m basing my comments on conversations with Hispanic friends and family members.

As an aside, I found it odd that in a Shall-Issue state like Texas, no LTC holder was available or willing to engage the El Paso shooter when the shooting began. I can’t say what I would’ve done had I been there and carrying. But I wonder if more lives could’ve been saved if an LTC holder would’ve engaged the shooter.
In regards to the statement I highlighted in red, I thought I read (maybe on this forum) that El Paso has a rather low percentage of LTC holders compared to the population there. I don't know where to find that information to verify or debunk that, just going off of what I read.

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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#20

Post by bbhack » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:17 am

K.Mooneyham wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:37 am
...
In regards to the statement I highlighted in red, I thought I read (maybe on this forum) that El Paso has a rather low percentage of LTC holders compared to the population there. I don't know where to find that information to verify or debunk that, just going off of what I read.
I did some analysis. DPS publishes new LTCs by county by year (calendar or fiscal). They break down by ethnicity, but that was not what was interesting at the time.

I can't remember the source, but I got population by county. Using that, and the DPS stats, I got that the new LTCs in the El Paso county was on the very low side for Texas. The El Paso percentage of new LTCs in Texas hovers around 1.5% of Texas. Their population is almost twice that, so they are under-achievers. The pattern of new LTCs was consistent from 2017-2012. I quit looking after that. So, 6 years of low LTCs indicates a low number of LTCs. I can share the spreadsheet if you wish.
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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#21

Post by Liberty » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:25 am

bbhack wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:17 am
K.Mooneyham wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:37 am
...
In regards to the statement I highlighted in red, I thought I read (maybe on this forum) that El Paso has a rather low percentage of LTC holders compared to the population there. I don't know where to find that information to verify or debunk that, just going off of what I read.
I did some analysis. DPS publishes new LTCs by county by year (calendar or fiscal). They break down by ethnicity, but that was not what was interesting at the time.

I can't remember the source, but I got population by county. Using that, and the DPS stats, I got that the new LTCs in the El Paso county was on the very low side for Texas. The El Paso percentage of new LTCs in Texas hovers around 1.5% of Texas. Their population is almost twice that, so they are under-achievers. The pattern of new LTCs was consistent from 2017-2012. I quit looking after that. So, 6 years of low LTCs indicates a low number of LTCs. I can share the spreadsheet if you wish.
Considering the time of year and the time of day, The shoppers were mostly mom's and many were Mexican citizens. The likelyhood of an LTC holder willing to take action drops considerably from the typical Texas Walmart. It would be be a lot different on a spring Saturday Morning at a Home Dept at a suburb outside of Houston.
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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#22

Post by Tex1961 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:59 am

I'd actually read an article yesterday from one of the victims who attempted to distract him by throwing bottles at him.... He tried to get to his mothers 38spcl she usually carries in her purse, but left it home that day. Also he was cared for after being shot, by an off duty guard who had also left her gun home that day......

So what lessons have we learned from this kiddo's..... DON''T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT YOUR GUN.......
Side note to that piece of obviously over the top advise.... My carry gun broke and I had to buy a new one, my holster hasn't arrived so I've had to carry my small BUG for the last week... I didn't realize how used I have become to strapping on my holster everyday.... It is also a great reminder of everytime I start to get a little complacent about not carrying of how quick things can go sideways and to never leave home without it...
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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#23

Post by K.Mooneyham » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:15 am

bbhack wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:17 am
K.Mooneyham wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:37 am
...
In regards to the statement I highlighted in red, I thought I read (maybe on this forum) that El Paso has a rather low percentage of LTC holders compared to the population there. I don't know where to find that information to verify or debunk that, just going off of what I read.
I did some analysis. DPS publishes new LTCs by county by year (calendar or fiscal). They break down by ethnicity, but that was not what was interesting at the time.

I can't remember the source, but I got population by county. Using that, and the DPS stats, I got that the new LTCs in the El Paso county was on the very low side for Texas. The El Paso percentage of new LTCs in Texas hovers around 1.5% of Texas. Their population is almost twice that, so they are under-achievers. The pattern of new LTCs was consistent from 2017-2012. I quit looking after that. So, 6 years of low LTCs indicates a low number of LTCs. I can share the spreadsheet if you wish.
Thank you for doing the research and sharing the information. Confirms what I read (wherever that may have been). Perhaps the killer also researched that info somehow, and that influenced his decision to drive so far to commit his heinous crime.


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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#24

Post by LDP » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:48 pm

K.Mooneyham wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:15 am
Perhaps the killer also researched that info somehow, and that influenced his decision to drive so far to commit his heinous crime.
From what I've heard on the news (assume it is unverified), the shooter stated that he drove almost all day to El Paso for one reason: so that he'd be far away from his home to prevent his parents from recognizing him on the news.
How true that is, I have no clue.
But this is, in fact, what he said then I don't believe him to be the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Does anybody have any link to any supporting evidence for this one?


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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#25

Post by LDP » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:52 pm

bbhack wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:17 am
I did some analysis. DPS publishes new LTCs by county by year (calendar or fiscal). They break down by ethnicity, but that was not what was interesting at the time.

I can't remember the source, but I got population by county. Using that, and the DPS stats, I got that the new LTCs in the El Paso county was on the very low side for Texas. The El Paso percentage of new LTCs in Texas hovers around 1.5% of Texas. Their population is almost twice that, so they are under-achievers. The pattern of new LTCs was consistent from 2017-2012. I quit looking after that. So, 6 years of low LTCs indicates a low number of LTCs. I can share the spreadsheet if you wish.
Do you maybe have and data on the general population of El Paso (or its counties) so that we can compare the ration of legals vs illegals&criminals to other localities?
What I am driving at is that if the ratio is lower in El Paso, it would reduce the pool of applicants and thus number of issued LTCs per capita.


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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#26

Post by WTR » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:11 pm

While that area of El Paso is not necessarily anti gun, they are less likely to own and carry a gun. Also, many of the people in Walmart that day where Mexican Nationals. They could not legally carry.

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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#27

Post by bbhack » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:20 am

LDP wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:52 pm
bbhack wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:17 am
I did some analysis. DPS publishes new LTCs by county by year (calendar or fiscal). They break down by ethnicity, but that was not what was interesting at the time.

I can't remember the source, but I got population by county. Using that, and the DPS stats, I got that the new LTCs in the El Paso county was on the very low side for Texas. The El Paso percentage of new LTCs in Texas hovers around 1.5% of Texas. Their population is almost twice that, so they are under-achievers. The pattern of new LTCs was consistent from 2017-2012. I quit looking after that. So, 6 years of low LTCs indicates a low number of LTCs. I can share the spreadsheet if you wish.
Do you maybe have and data on the general population of El Paso (or its counties) so that we can compare the ration of legals vs illegals&criminals to other localities?
What I am driving at is that if the ratio is lower in El Paso, it would reduce the pool of applicants and thus number of issued LTCs per capita.
The population of El Paso is approx. 3% of the state. The number of new LTCs is approx. 1.5% of total new issues per year. The 1.5% pattern is consistent from 2012-2017. It looks like El Paso has 1/3 the number of LTCs vs the median or mean county in Texas. The total number of LTCs is not published, but the longer term pattern can be assumed. It is an assumption, but with numbers.

The purpose of this analysis is to help answer the question "why did not someone shoot the demon?"
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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#28

Post by LDP » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:54 am

bbhack wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:20 am
LDP wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:52 pm
bbhack wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:17 am
I did some analysis. DPS publishes new LTCs by county by year (calendar or fiscal). They break down by ethnicity, but that was not what was interesting at the time.

I can't remember the source, but I got population by county. Using that, and the DPS stats, I got that the new LTCs in the El Paso county was on the very low side for Texas. The El Paso percentage of new LTCs in Texas hovers around 1.5% of Texas. Their population is almost twice that, so they are under-achievers. The pattern of new LTCs was consistent from 2017-2012. I quit looking after that. So, 6 years of low LTCs indicates a low number of LTCs. I can share the spreadsheet if you wish.
Do you maybe have and data on the general population of El Paso (or its counties) so that we can compare the ration of legals vs illegals&criminals to other localities?
What I am driving at is that if the ratio is lower in El Paso, it would reduce the pool of applicants and thus number of issued LTCs per capita.
The population of El Paso is approx. 3% of the state. The number of new LTCs is approx. 1.5% of total new issues per year. The 1.5% pattern is consistent from 2012-2017. It looks like El Paso has 1/3 the number of LTCs vs the median or mean county in Texas. The total number of LTCs is not published, but the longer term pattern can be assumed. It is an assumption, but with numbers.

The purpose of this analysis is to help answer the question "why did not someone shoot the demon?"
Thank you, sir.
Any chance you'd have some numbers to compare that to Houston or Dallas? (or both if you can)
Pretty please?
(I like numbers, sorry)

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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#29

Post by oljames3 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:22 pm

K.Mooneyham wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:37 am
equin wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:53 pm
SickSilverado wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:38 pm
This may be a good thing sort of right? The left claims the immigrant/hispanic/non-american crowd is under attack from all sides. Surely they wouldn't disarm the people they care about most...right? Or atleast not throw them in jail over some outrageous gun law.
I feel this is one of the ironies of the Left’s gun control agenda. Many legal immigrants and American citizens of Hispanic origin feel under attack and scapegoated. The Left may tend to capitalize on this fear. And yet, whether the fear is warranted or not, the Left’s gun control agenda may unnecessarily deny them the opportunity to arm themselves for protection.

Now, before I’m accused of generalizing how Hispanics may feel, I’m an American citizen of Puerto Rican origin and my wife is a naturalized American citizen of Mexican origin. I’m basing my comments on conversations with Hispanic friends and family members.

As an aside, I found it odd that in a Shall-Issue state like Texas, no LTC holder was available or willing to engage the El Paso shooter when the shooting began. I can’t say what I would’ve done had I been there and carrying. But I wonder if more lives could’ve been saved if an LTC holder would’ve engaged the shooter.
In regards to the statement I highlighted in red, I thought I read (maybe on this forum) that El Paso has a rather low percentage of LTC holders compared to the population there. I don't know where to find that information to verify or debunk that, just going off of what I read.
As an aside, I found it odd that in a Shall-Issue state like Texas, no LTC holder was available or willing to engage the El Paso shooter when the shooting began. I can’t say what I would’ve done had I been there and carrying. But I wonder if more lives could’ve been saved if an LTC holder would’ve engaged the shooter.
Not enough people carrying and/or willing to defend.

Crime Prevention Research Center, 2018, published data on the number of license/permit holders by state. Texas was below the national average.
https://crimeresearch.org/2018/08/new-s ... inorities/

So, being generous, 7% of the adults in El Paso might have an LTC. Of that 7%, maybe half would be carrying. Of that 7%, maybe 1% have had any training. LTC does not count. http://blog.krtraining.com/beyond-the-o ... nt-part-1/

Pick a number of adults you think were in the Walmart and do the math. How many adults would have to be present for 1 LTC holder, with training, to be present? Way too many.
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SickSilverado
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Re: Lots of people buying guns/ammo at the border.

#30

Post by SickSilverado » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:44 pm

That side of town didn't seem like the "gun toting" type when I was there years ago. I know there used to be high end thugs that way and some LEOs. Different culture and atmosphere from say the northeast side. My family and several others were gun owners as well as lots of military in the northeast of El Paso.

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