Geocache on my property. Now what?

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psijac
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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#31

Post by psijac » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:57 pm

You guys are gonna flip when you hear about Pokemon Go
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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#32

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:48 am

S&Wfanatic wrote:If you cant find it on the website, there is an app for both IOS and Android......
I already linked it above:
The Annoyed Man wrote:.........There is a mobil app that will help you find geocache locations on your cellphone: https://www.geocaching.com/mobile/
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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#33

Post by C-dub » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:16 am

S&Wfanatic wrote:If you cant find it on the website, there is an app for both IOS and Android. Once you download it and open it, it will mark on the map geocaches close to you. I believe it has a blue dot on the map that represents your position so the green dot, the caches, close to your location would likely be the one you are looking for on your property.

My kids and I play this game all the time, and there are rules, and one of them is, if it's on private property get the owners permission first.
That sounds cool. I may try that. I think it is in a creek bed area that turns into a small river that pretty dangerous when it rains hard. It must be up in a tree to have not been washed away so far.
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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#34

Post by puma guy » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:38 am

C-dub wrote:
S&Wfanatic wrote:If you cant find it on the website, there is an app for both IOS and Android. Once you download it and open it, it will mark on the map geocaches close to you. I believe it has a blue dot on the map that represents your position so the green dot, the caches, close to your location would likely be the one you are looking for on your property.

My kids and I play this game all the time, and there are rules, and one of them is, if it's on private property get the owners permission first.
That sounds cool. I may try that. I think it is in a creek bed area that turns into a small river that pretty dangerous when it rains hard. It must be up in a tree to have not been washed away so far.
C-dub, I curious about not being allowed to build fences. Has no one challenged the city on that? What possible grounds could be applied to prevent a homeowner from protecting property and privacy with a fence? How can you keep an outside dog without having it tethered, which is to me a very bad idea. Beside the safety risks and lack of real exercise, is inhumane and you potentially lose any security benefit of a dog in the back yard to prevent a rear door/window breakin. From your description it sounds as though access is easily gained from a creek area. Maybe your neighborhood should petition the city for special police patrols to protect your homes.
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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#35

Post by KLB » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:09 pm

C-dub wrote:[T]he city prohibits the land owners from installing any fences by not approving any permits to do so.
Put up a closely spaced string of no-trespassing signs.

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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#36

Post by puma guy » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:27 pm

KLB wrote:
C-dub wrote:[T]he city prohibits the land owners from installing any fences by not approving any permits to do so.
Put up a closely spaced string of no-trespassing signs.
"rlol"
I have just enough anarchist in me to defy them by putting up a fence and letting them take me to court to let them explain why they don't issue permits when requested. If they don't want to allow fences they should pass an ordinance or zoning code that can be challenged through an official avenue. The officials are playing a game with citizens and should be exposed one way or another. It's absolutely about power and has noting to do with city beautification, IMHO. I'll bet the city has fenced property.
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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#37

Post by superchief » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:12 pm

If you have a decent sized tree or trees near your property line, paint a purple strip on it per the regulations below.

The Texas Law is HB 793, under Texas Penal Code 30.05, Criminal
Trespass
, section 1, subsection D.

Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:

(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
(D) the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks are:
(i) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width;
(ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet from the ground; and
(iii) placed at locations that are readily visible to any person approaching the property and no more than:
(a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or
(b) 1,000 feet apart on land other than forest land; or

(E) the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry.


Also, let's explore section 9 of the penal code:

Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.

Sec. 9.03. CONFINEMENT AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. Confinement is justified when force is justified by this chapter if the actor takes reasonable measures to terminate the confinement as soon as he knows he safely can unless the person confined has been arrested for an offense.


Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

When you spot someone on your property, hold them at gunpoint, cuff them or use zip ties, and call the cops and have them charged with trespassing. Some people might view this as a little extreme, but you could be liable for any injuries the morons suffer while pursuing their hobby. Plus, you really don't know if it's somebody's hobby or they're using your place as a convenient place for a drug deal.

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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#38

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:36 pm

I'm still wondering when someone is going to tell me this is a bad idea, and why....... :mrgreen:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
bblhd672 wrote:
jmorris wrote:
FuziDave wrote:their web site is here: https://www.geocaching.com/play

you might be able to search for the exact one. or you can contact the admin there. they are only allowed to place them on private property w/ the permission of the land owner. you could tell them to remove it from their site since you didn't give your permission.
Geochached for a few years. I knew of one person in the San Antonio area that often put them on private property, even with posted no trespassing signs, without permission. In one cache posting she even gave directions on how to avoid no trespassing signs so you could claim you didn't see them. I called her on it, stating what the penalty could be if caught and her response was "don't get caught".

Now she wasn't the norm but the attitude wasn't unusual. Bad apples in every group.
I'd be willing to bet she was a progressive/liberal.
That kind of lack of respect demands a stronger response........like no trespassing signs warning that you enter at your own risk and accept all liabilities if you do, and then tripwires and pepper spray, or something equally diabolical. :evil2:
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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#39

Post by Keith B » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:03 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:I'm still wondering when someone is going to tell me this is a bad idea, and why....... :mrgreen:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
bblhd672 wrote:
jmorris wrote:
FuziDave wrote:their web site is here: https://www.geocaching.com/play

you might be able to search for the exact one. or you can contact the admin there. they are only allowed to place them on private property w/ the permission of the land owner. you could tell them to remove it from their site since you didn't give your permission.
Geochached for a few years. I knew of one person in the San Antonio area that often put them on private property, even with posted no trespassing signs, without permission. In one cache posting she even gave directions on how to avoid no trespassing signs so you could claim you didn't see them. I called her on it, stating what the penalty could be if caught and her response was "don't get caught".

Now she wasn't the norm but the attitude wasn't unusual. Bad apples in every group.
I'd be willing to bet she was a progressive/liberal.
That kind of lack of respect demands a stronger response........like no trespassing signs warning that you enter at your own risk and accept all liabilities if you do, and then tripwires and pepper spray, or something equally diabolical. :evil2:
With pepper spray, it would not seem to be illegal. TPC 9.41 says:
Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
......
And, for use of the device:
Sec. 9.44. USE OF DEVICE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. The justification afforded by Sections 9.41 and 9.43 applies to the use of a device to protect land or tangible, movable property if:
(1) the device is not designed to cause, or known by the actor to create a substantial risk of causing, death or serious bodily injury; and
(2) use of the device is reasonable under all the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be when he installs the device.
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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#40

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:47 pm

Thanks Keith. It would also be fun with that blue dye that banks use on robbers. :lol:
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy
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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#41

Post by Javier730 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:15 pm

psijac wrote:You guys are gonna flip when you hear about Pokemon Go
Property Owner: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN MY PROPERTY!?!?

Kid: "Looking for Pikachus..."
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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#42

Post by KLB » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:34 pm

puma guy wrote:I [am] curious about not being allowed to build fences. Has no one challenged the city on that?
A good point. If this bothers you enough, contact a lawyer who knows something about municipal regulation. Things like building permits are usually in a category called "ministerial." That means that there should be a set of objective criteria to qualify for the permit. If you meet the objective criteria, they have to issue you the permit.

I can't say for sure that's the case with your fence permit, but I'd be curious to hear the City Attorney explain why it's not the case.

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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#43

Post by LAYGO » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:40 pm

You can contact the GeoCache website admins & they can archive that geocache if it's on personal property.

I used to work for another GeoLocation game called Munzee. Our support guy would routinely archive inappropriate deployments. I know for certain you can get it archived on GeoCache website & it won't show up for any hunters to look for.

Munzee is like GeoCache, but instead of a container (small from a film canister to large ammo cans), Munzee uses QRCodes, like this one:
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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#44

Post by C-dub » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:15 am

puma guy wrote:
C-dub wrote:
S&Wfanatic wrote:If you cant find it on the website, there is an app for both IOS and Android. Once you download it and open it, it will mark on the map geocaches close to you. I believe it has a blue dot on the map that represents your position so the green dot, the caches, close to your location would likely be the one you are looking for on your property.

My kids and I play this game all the time, and there are rules, and one of them is, if it's on private property get the owners permission first.
That sounds cool. I may try that. I think it is in a creek bed area that turns into a small river that pretty dangerous when it rains hard. It must be up in a tree to have not been washed away so far.
C-dub, I curious about not being allowed to build fences. Has no one challenged the city on that? What possible grounds could be applied to prevent a homeowner from protecting property and privacy with a fence? How can you keep an outside dog without having it tethered, which is to me a very bad idea. Beside the safety risks and lack of real exercise, is inhumane and you potentially lose any security benefit of a dog in the back yard to prevent a rear door/window breakin. From your description it sounds as though access is easily gained from a creek area. Maybe your neighborhood should petition the city for special police patrols to protect your homes.
It is a bit of an odd situation. Our lots are the normal width, but deep enough that we all have close to a full acre that is bisected by a creek with lots of trees and open space on the other side from our homes. The appeal of the area for kids and others does not escape any of us and is a nice area for one of these geocache things.

However, someone tried starting a campfire back there a little over a month ago and if any of those folks get injured or worse on my property I'm worried they will find a way to hold me responsible. All the residents are allowed and most have installed fences on the same side of the creek as our homes. They have been there for more than a few decades. It is the opposite side of the creek that the city won't approve permits for fences. It has been many years since anyone has attempted to do that, so I'm not sure what the city would do about it now. I'm not even sure it would be reasonable to install a fence because of the creek. It is easy to cross right now, but when there is a significant amount of rainfall it becomes extremely dangerous and could be deadly. A fence in or across the creek would likely be destroyed by either the water or debris that gets washed through or create larger flooding problems if it held the debris and was not destroyed.

I did paint purple lines on many trees according to 30.05. I'm hesitant about putting up actual no trespassing signs because I think the kids would probably just vandalize them or take them down. The traffic has decreased a little compared to two months ago. I'm not sure if the purple lines are the cause or if it was catching several people back there and warning them that it was private property or the police being called out a couple of times and the word has gotten out.

I did contact a geocaching site and they are going to try and help me determine if there is one located back there somewhere. I will also try and find it myself and give them more details about it if I do find one so we can have it and its information removed or relocated to public property.
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Re: Geocache on my property. Now what?

#45

Post by puma guy » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:10 pm

psijac wrote:You guys are gonna flip when you hear about Pokemon Go
My son-in-law just caught a "weedle" in my den! He told me there have been instances of bad guys waiting for children to show up playing this game. That's unconfirmed but I can certainly see the potential.

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