PA: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

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philip964
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PA: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#1

Post by philip964 » Sat May 21, 2016 8:43 pm

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/c ... -1.2618098

Disturbance at church over a seat, escalated by a man who walks up with his gun drawn and holding his CHL Badge in his other hand.

He shoots and kills a man in church after the man hits him and says "what are you going to do shoot me".

Charged with Manslaughter.

Giving anti gunners more ammunition.

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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#2

Post by TexasJohnBoy » Sat May 21, 2016 8:47 pm

Sounds like it was not a real concealed weapons permit (or whatever they call it in PA...)
The gun-toting suspect then flashed a Concealed Weapons Permit badge, which the district attorney’s office believes was purchased online.
(emphasis mine)

That's not a thing that should be able to just be 'purchased online' methinks.
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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#3

Post by Keith B » Sat May 21, 2016 9:03 pm

TexasJohnBoy wrote:Sounds like it was not a real concealed weapons permit (or whatever they call it in PA...)
The gun-toting suspect then flashed a Concealed Weapons Permit badge, which the district attorney’s office believes was purchased online.
(emphasis mine)

That's not a thing that should be able to just be 'purchased online' methinks.
Easy to purchase online. Just Google it. Here's one http://www.chkadels.com/ProductDetail.a ... aQodPGcN-w

However, this doesn't mean the guy did or didn't have a valid concealed carry permit. That should come out in the future.

No matter, this guy's going to spend time in prison. :banghead:
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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#4

Post by Flightmare » Sat May 21, 2016 9:09 pm

Maybe I'm weird. I would think that if you wanted it to be a "concealed" permit, you wouldn't want to go around flashing a badge. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my plastic. I use it every chance I get to purchase a new gun and skip the background check. But as far as being in the general public? I have no reason to reveal my concealed status.
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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#5

Post by warnmar10 » Sat May 21, 2016 9:44 pm

Flightmare wrote:Maybe I'm weird. I would think that if you wanted it to be a "concealed" permit, you wouldn't want to go around flashing a badge. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my plastic. I use it every chance I get to purchase a new gun and skip the background check. But as far as being in the general public? I have no reason to reveal my concealed status.
I figure once you draw your gun everyone will know anyway.
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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

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Post by howdy » Sat May 21, 2016 9:51 pm

This guy had a history:

" His bail is set at $250,000. Storms told police that he was hoping to defuse the situation by showing a gun, which, according to court documents, he's done in the past."
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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#7

Post by jmorris » Sat May 21, 2016 9:59 pm

Flightmare wrote:Maybe I'm weird. I would think that if you wanted it to be a "concealed" permit, you wouldn't want to go around flashing a badge. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my plastic. I use it every chance I get to purchase a new gun and skip the background check. But as far as being in the general public? I have no reason to reveal my concealed status.
It's usually marketed along the lines of after a shooting you hold up the badge so the LEOs know who the good guy is. As if they're going to decide who's the good guy is based on that. This guy was just totally in left field.

Besides, we all know the sash is the way to go.

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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#8

Post by koine2002 » Sat May 21, 2016 10:00 pm

howdy wrote:This guy had a history:

" His bail is set at $250,000. Storms told police that he was hoping to defuse the situation by showing a gun, which, according to court documents, he's done in the past."
Yep, drawing a gun is definitely a time-tested deescalation technique. :nono: SMH. Drawing a gun is for when deescalation doesn't work regardless of how much time it took (split second or more time).
Last edited by koine2002 on Sat May 21, 2016 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#9

Post by Flightmare » Sat May 21, 2016 10:11 pm

jmorris wrote:
Flightmare wrote:Maybe I'm weird. I would think that if you wanted it to be a "concealed" permit, you wouldn't want to go around flashing a badge. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my plastic. I use it every chance I get to purchase a new gun and skip the background check. But as far as being in the general public? I have no reason to reveal my concealed status.
It's usually marketed along the lines of after a shooting you hold up the badge so the LEOs know who the good guy is. As if they're going to decide who's the good guy is based on that. This guy was just totally in left field.

Besides, we all know the sash is the way to go.

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Now if I could just find that darn tiara to go with it.
My mistake. Guess I need to get me a sash then. Who needs plastic? :biggrinjester:
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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#10

Post by Countryside » Sat May 21, 2016 11:25 pm

Upon reading the story...the stupidity of both men makes you just sort of shake your head.

Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers."

It appears neither of these clowns fell into that category.

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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#11

Post by Flightmare » Sun May 22, 2016 1:29 am

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/loc ... 65671.html

This version seems to have details that make the shooter seem slightly better, but only slightly. Instead of the shooter saying he showed his gun to defuse the situation, he showed his "badge". Sounds like another incident where a person who has their license to carry playing security at best, or wannabe LEO at worst. Either way, definitely poor judgement on his part.
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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#12

Post by BCGlocker » Sun May 22, 2016 7:09 am

The problem is "Proportionality". You can't introduce a firearm (use of deadly force) into a fist fight. Once again, we see CCWers fail to MYOB (Mind Your Own Business).
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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#13

Post by Abraham » Sun May 22, 2016 8:15 am

BCGlocker,

You stated: "You can't introduce a firearm (use of deadly force) into a fist fight."

If you're a young, big adult and you start punching a much smaller, elderly man, do you consider that a fist fight?

If so, I guess the smaller man is just supposed to tolerate being punched out...and perhaps die.

I don't consider such a scenario a fist fight.

Yes, fists were part of the equation, but in my opinion, they could be deadly weapons.

I think it could come under the header of deadly assault by the younger, bigger, stronger man.

Agree or disagree with such a scenario?

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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#14

Post by BCGlocker » Sun May 22, 2016 8:27 am

Abraham wrote:BCGlocker,

You stated: "You can't introduce a firearm (use of deadly force) into a fist fight."

If you're a young, big adult and you start punching a much smaller, elderly man, do you consider that a fist fight?

If so, I guess the smaller man is just supposed to tolerate being punched out...and perhaps die.

I don't consider such a scenario a fist fight.

Yes, fists were part of the equation, but in my opinion, they could be deadly weapons.

I think it could come under the header of deadly assault by the younger, bigger, stronger man.

Agree or disagree with such a scenario?
"Proportionality" is just one of the consideration for use as a defense from prosecution. Others including disparity of force (old vs young, one vs. multiple assailants, female vs male..etc). If there is no immediate substantial risk of death or serious injury to you or another, deadly force should not be introduced.
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Re: CHL Badge holder charged in murder at church

#15

Post by puma guy » Sun May 22, 2016 8:42 am

Countryside wrote:Upon reading the story...the stupidity of both men makes you just sort of shake your head.

Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers."

It appears neither of these clowns fell into that category.
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