Alvin City Hall Parking Lot - Posted

[RPB]

Applies to all firearms for most people. Applies to CHL with rifles or shotguns in the trunk.

Technically it also applies to federal LEO who aren't peace officers in Texas.

Not even that I dont' think.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... LG.229.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That reads to me like they cant' "regulate the carrying of a firearm" by a CHL at all and only non CHL's at parks, public goverment meetings, political meetings, and athletic events. Posting a 30.05 sign would be regulating, wouldn't it? No authority.

The signs at gun shows on city or county property aren't valid for unlicensed people either? Priceless!

They are valid in that they exist and are real, not imaginary, but they are legally unenforceable for CHLs. You could be arrested, then after taking the ride and paying a lot, get it dismissed probably. My layman's opinion, worth every penny you paid for it.

Yeah, under some definitions they are not valid, but specifically, they are not supposed to be enforced so we say "unenforceable" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/valid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RPB]

I gave a copy of this thread to the city manager and he said he and the city attorney would look at it.

Good.

To make the City/County Attorney's job easier, ... Usually I send the form letter below with citations, down to the part that says "ordinances in question" and customize the part below that for each City/County/Violation.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=48049&p=588096&hili ... r+#p588096" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If they don't understand (if they want the citations/links) you could use the form letter and you could put "Sign in question" and the photo

TO:
Mayor,
City Attorney,
City Secretary,
City Police Chief
Each City Commissioner/Councilman

I'm trying to save the City money and am concerned about the City currently violating a State law which could lead to a Federal Lawsuit which would be very expensive to defend.

Excluding Courts, most City owned (Property, Library, PARKS, buildings) are not allowed to prohibit concealed handgun carry licensees, reference to Texas Penal Code Section 46, specifically sections 46.02, 46.03, and 46.035 in the link below for your convenience.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#46.035" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Furthermore, Texas Penal Code 1.08 specifically prohibits municipal and County governments, including any subdivision or agency from enacting or enforcing laws governing conduct reserved for state law.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... m/PE.1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sec. 1.08. PREEMPTION. No governmental subdivision or agency may enact or enforce a law that makes any conduct covered by this code an offense subject to a criminal penalty. This section shall apply only as long as the law governing the conduct proscribed by this code is legally enforceable.

The State further asserts its sole authority to regulate concealed carry, superseding any municipal ordinance or law.

Local Government Code 229.001, specifically denies cities the right to regulate Concealed Handgun Licensees while granting cities the right to regulate some use of arms by unlicensed individuals, notice the "other than" language in the Statue below:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... LG.229.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sec. 229.001. FIREARMS; EXPLOSIVES. (a) A municipality may not adopt regulations relating to the transfer, private ownership, keeping, transportation, licensing, or registration of firearms, ammunition, or firearm supplies.

(b) Subsection (a) does not affect the authority a municipality has under another law to:

(6) regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:
(A) public park;
(B) public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;
(C) political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or
(D) nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event.

And lastly, government owned buildings such as the (Property, Library, PARKS, buildings, civic center) are specifically prohibited from banning the carrying of guns by CHL holders via the PC 30.06 trespassing statute (the only way that private businesses can ban CHL in Texas).

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... .htm#30.06" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Texas PC 30.06 (e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

Since a "good faith" arrest can NOT be made for anything which is NOT illegal, I hope the officers, sheriffs, Constables are aware of the above, and trained/informed accordingly, so the Governments don't waste money due to a Federal §1983 civil rights lawsuit. (42 USC 1983) http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/1983.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


City Ordinances in question:
---------


----------
Signed a concerned City Taxpayer and voter.

So, now city was put on notice, in case anything happens, (They now knew or should have known, and failed to take proper steps in education police, removing signs etc and if you get arrested, you have proof of negligence in a Federal Civil Rights §1983 Suit (42 USC 1983) viewtopic.php?f=90&t=42252&p=509348&hil ... th#p509348" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ...and perhaps the city will fix any crazy legally unenforceable signs/ordinances.

[RPBrown]

The signs are not valid. Also, I was by there yesterday to renew my Mechanical Registration and the signs that I saw were not on the public lot just the employee lot. Now they still cannot legally enforce them either way. Just saying.

[terryg]

Also, I was by there yesterday to renew my Mechanical Registration and the signs that I saw were not on the public lot just the employee lot.

You were by the Alvin, TX City Hall? There are only two parking areas and neither appear to be marked as employee. One of them is also the path to the public drive through window where you can pay your water bill.

Here is an aerial view - the red circles indicate the location of the signs.

[RPBrown]

Also, I was by there yesterday to renew my Mechanical Registration and the signs that I saw were not on the public lot just the employee lot.

You were by the Alvin, TX City Hall? There are only two parking areas and neither appear to be marked as employee. One of them is also the path to the public drive through window where you can pay your water bill.

Here is an aerial view - the red circles indicate the location of the signs.

The building that I was at is on HWY 6. Not being from there I assumed that was city hall. Most cities and towns have the building inspections inside city hall.

You know what they say abuot assumming though. My apologies.

[Jumping Frog]

Applies to all firearms for most people. Applies to CHL with rifles or shotguns in the trunk.

Technically it also applies to federal LEO who aren't peace officers in Texas.

I don't want to divert the discussion, but technically, federal LEO have been granted peace officer status in Texas. There was a thread discussing this a few weeks ago. You can search for it if yoy have further interest.

[boba]

Technically it also applies to federal LEO who aren't peace officers in Texas.

I don't want to divert the discussion, but technically, federal LEO have been granted peace officer status in Texas. There was a thread discussing this a few weeks ago. You can search for it if yoy have further interest.

I searched and it agrees with me. Nobody was able to name the bill that changed the law that said they're not peace officers. If it was a real bill it shouldn't take more than five minutes to find it.

[terryg]

The building that I was at is on HWY 6. Not being from there I assumed that was city hall. Most cities and towns have the building inspections inside city hall.

You know what they say abuot assumming though. My apologies.

No problem - I was just trying to figure it out.

[glbedd53]

Looks like they need to forget the signs and worry about that roof.