Gun fires without being touched

[KBCraig]

IIRC, the action did not cycle; the empty shell was still chambered after firing. That's pretty solid evidence that the thumb safety was engaged the entire time.

[frankie_the_yankee]

NcongruNT opined that the magnetic force could have held the slide in place even with the safety off. This would also result in the empty case being found in the chamber. I have no idea if the magnet in an MRI machine is strong enough to do this, but I do know that it is very, very strong so I guess it could.

But what I find implausible is that the safety could be knocked off safe by the magnet and then knocked back on safe after firing. Seems like too much of a coincidence. The idea that the firing pin safety got sucked up out of the way and the firing pin fired the round by inertia when the gun came to a sudden stop against the MRI chamber wall is a lot simpler.

[hoss4570]

Don't believe everything you read. I still ain't buying it. No way.

[DoubleJ]

yeah, everything I read in them thar commie "physics" books!! what a bunch of hooie!

[Keith B]

I think it is possible. Depending on the angle at which the pistol struck the housing, the magenetic force was pulling it one direction, and the impact (sudden stop) allowed it to contiue in different direction. Remember that an object in motion tends to stay in motion, so internal part will still move after the frame and slide had been stopped. There are validated cases in which ferrous objects have been drawn into the core at 40MPH. That's pretty darn fast with a lot of momentum. There was a case where a 6 year old boy was killed when an oxegyn cylinder was brought into the room and it struck him when drawn in.

Here is some interesting info from a Radiology Today article:

Metal Drawn to the Magnet
Missile effects is the term generally used to describe the way MR’s high-powered magnet pulls some metallic objects into its field. The Valhalla case—where an emergency oxygen tank was drawn with such velocity and force that it killed the young boy in the bore—is the most horrific incident to be picked up by the popular press, but similar, nonfatal occurrences happen fairly regularly around the country.

Routine patient screening before scanning is intended to prevent such problems, but when imaging centers power down their systems, they regularly report finding paper clips, pens, keys, staples, and an array of other magnetized items in the bore. While technologists usually worry most about these small objects distorting scanning, it’s also important to realize that an MRI magnet can pull a stray hairpin across the room at 40 miles per hour.1 In fact, Gilk cites a case where “an MRI patient needed to have a bobby pin surgically removed from their nasal cavity when the pin was drawn towards the center of the bore [while] the patient was lying head-in in the scanner.�

As if that instance is not serious enough, hemostats, scissors, wheelchairs, patient gurneys, intravenous poles, and defibrillators have all been turned into projectiles capable of severe harm. When nonmedical people enter the magnet room, things can get even worse. In one instance, a police officer’s gun discharged as it was sucked out of his grip; in another, a firefighter was trapped and nearly suffocated as he was drawn into the bore when the breathing apparatus strapped to his back became magnetized in the MRI room. Only slightly less dangerous—because the people involved managed to escape injury—are several documented incidents involving mop buckets, vacuum cleaners, toolboxes, and other everyday items.2

Force Fields
The phenomenon by which metal becomes spontaneously magnetized is ferromagnetism, which affects iron, nickel, cobalt, and many other familiar metals and alloys. Although most implants today are made with titanium or other nonferromagnetic metals, it’s common knowledge that MRI systems can affect older angio and cerebral clips, bone pins, dental work, and even some tattoo dyes. That’s the key reason patients are screened. What’s less recognized is how MRI scanners may interfere with devices such as pacemakers, pulse oximeters, automated defibrillators, cardiac monitors, insulin pumps, cochlear implants, and vagus and other neurological stimulators.

Many people believe MRI radio frequency (RF) shielding acts like the lead shielding in a CT room, keeping the hazard trapped in the scanning room, “but that’s not the case,� says Gilk. “MRI interacts with its own space, and the spaces around it, in a way that’s entirely different.� Where a CT installation’s lead shielding is designed to keep radiation inside, MRI shielding keeps stray radiowaves out. “The focus is on protecting the magnet from interference, not the other way around,� says Gilk.

Plate steel is the only physical material that can contain an MRI system’s magnetic field. “The lines of force penetrate brick, wood, concrete, cement—which means that not only people outside the MRI suite but even people and machines outside the building can be affected,� Gilk explains. “Any steel in the building construction reshapes the magnetic fields in the MRI, and MRI magnetizes the steel in the building. So the levels of complexity are several orders of magnitude greater than a CT, even though they may not look all that different on the floor plan.�

Current designs using plate shielding, however, usually are not equipped to deal with the newest crop of 3 Tesla (3T) commercially available systems—and even higher-powered research magnets. Compare, for example, the typical few millimeters of steel plate with the 14-inch–thick, 500-ton shielding New York University recently installed around its new 7T whole-body scanning system. Gilk likens the result of inadequate shielding to swimming in a lake during a thunderstorm: “Steel is to magnetic force as water is to electricity—it offers a more efficient conductor.�

[Odin]

Whether or not any one of us believes this story to be true is irrelevant...it happened. Disbelief of the facts doesn't change the facts.

[KD5NRH]

It is interesting that the article doesn't appear to mention the condition of the primer, or show any pictures of the spent casing; given the amount of magnetic force involved, setting up a current within the primer itself could cause detonation.

Also, even though I'm not finding anything even remotely magnetic in my spent primer bin, it's entirely possible that even a tiny fragment of iron or steel trapped inside the primer during manufacture could have moved forcefully enough to start the reaction.

Of course, either of these scenarios would leave the question of why *only* the chambered round fired, but they're still possibilities.

[frankie_the_yankee]

It is interesting that the article doesn't appear to mention the condition of the primer, or show any pictures of the spent casing; given the amount of magnetic force involved, setting up a current within the primer itself could cause detonation.

Also, even though I'm not finding anything even remotely magnetic in my spent primer bin, it's entirely possible that even a tiny fragment of iron or steel trapped inside the primer during manufacture could have moved forcefully enough to start the reaction.

Of course, either of these scenarios would leave the question of why *only* the chambered round fired, but they're still possibilities.

Excellent point about the primer. It would be intresting to know if it had actually been struck by the firing pin.

But I doubt that eddy current heating of the primer could be responsible. If it was, some of the rest of the rounds in the magazine would have "cooked off" too.

[Lykoi]

my guess is similar to those posted... magnet pulled the firing pin block out of effective range... impact and sudden stop initiated the firing pin to move or compress the return spring...

[Sailor]

Visualize a sneeze with an expletive deleted.....The inanimate object, a Series '80 Colt, could not have fired a round in that configuration and ended up in the same configuration. The pistol could not have operated with the thumb safety on then re-engaged the thumb safety "itself", etc., etc., etc.......ad infinitum. If the inanimate object was something other than a gun that had supposedly done the physically impossible and caused the same damage the liar would have already been fired, if for nothing else...lying.

I think someone was playing with their pistol, pulled the trigger, and is lying to cover their....you know what.

Kind of like the guy who "decocked" his Sig P220 in my friends front yard and "it" went bang a few years ago. Fortunately he was pointing at the dirt. I suggested that next time he use the decock lever instead of the trigger. I also find it interesting that few, if any, locker room ADs can be replicated....w/o pulling the trigger that is.

Cody

[Odin]

I think someone was playing with their pistol, pulled the trigger, and is lying to cover their....you know what.
Cody

You didn't read the entire article, did you? The explanation is very logical, plausible, and easily supportable by science.

The weapon was actually photographed stuck to the MRI magnet and independent third parties were present and had to assist in retrieving the weapon from the MRI.

It's not like the officer was playing with his gun, accidentally fired it, and then dreamed up a wild, but plausible, scenario involving an MRI machine, then quickly un-chambered the round in the chamber, put it back in the top of the magazine, picked up his spent shell casing and loaded it into the chamber, reholstered the gun, banged the front of the gun into the MRI wall, and stuck the gun to the side of the MRI magnet.

[Sailor]

I read it.....I just don't believe any of it. What could happen, otherwise known as SPIN, and what did happen are 2 different things.....such as; odds are I could win the lottery if I would just buy one ticket....

Cody

PS: Odin, Sir; If "they" can duplicate it I will then believe it and immediately apologize for my disbelief and slight transgression.

[atxgun]

I don't understand all the disbelieving views. Are any of you saying this report was completely fabricated and a gun never fired? Do you believe maybe it did fire but he pulled the trigger and set the firearm in the manner described in the report? Improbable does not equate to impossible. I believe the report.

[KBCraig]

I don't understand all the disbelieving views.

It's a perfect illustration of the difference between peer-reviewed scientific journals, and internet forums.

[WildBill]

Here's another peer-reviewed journal article that showed that some guns can be made to fire when brought near the magnets in an MRI.

http://radiology.rsnajnls.org/cgi/reprint/193/3/875

In part, the article stated the following results:

"In tests of cocked guns, the Glock, Star, Smith and Wesson, and North American Arms handguns did not discharge when removed from the magnet bore barrel-first while fully cocked. The Taurus handgun did fire, however, in two of six repeated tests, and the Browning handgun fired in six of six such repeated maneuvers. The trigger of the Browning handgun was repeatedly seen to begin to be “depressed,� or pulled, toward the firing position when the gun was more than 2 feet away from the bore opening. In each case, the cause of firing was not hammer motion but was ferromagnetic attraction of the imaging system on the trigger itself."