Received my shoulder holster today...

[Excaliber]

My cautionary comments were prompted by what I saw in my agency, where I saw much improper use. At that time shoulder rigs were much less sophisticated than the ones we see today, and training material and techniques were, by today's standards, rudimentary at best.

When I worked with these earlier rigs, I found a lot of gotchas that I wasn't expecting. After some experimenting, I was able to overcome them well enough to use that carry method to my satisfaction when needed. However, I eventually moved away from this system because waistband carry options were easier for me to use securely, reliably, and safely. A simple reliable solution was more important to me than mastery of multiple techniques.

To be clear, I was never a shoulder carry expert and am not one today. I have more experience with what can go wrong here than the ability to train someone else how to get the best out of that method. The draw stroke Flint describes is a solid technique and critical to safe and proper use. Unfortunately it doesn't come naturally to most folks who buy a shoulder rig, put it on, and try to draw from it. They generally default to a method that sweeps everyone and everything within 180 degrees of the body on the side the holster is worn until someone points out this issue. Ranges frown on them because they quickly empty the shooting and observation positions within the swept arc of anyone who is paying attention.

From the detailed replies by Flint and LT it's clear to me that they both have much more in depth experience in training with and using shoulder holsters than I do. They have put much more thought and effort into using this system effectively than I or anyone I ever worked with, and they've built up a system that would take years of hard work to duplicate. If I were to find myself with a condition that made waistband carry no longer a good option for me, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to sign up for their training and would suggest the same for anyone else considering this specialized carry method.

[Ashlar]

Without asking anyone to give away any 'trade secrets' that one might derive income from, can anyone give more detail on what is 'the proper method' of bringing a handgun to bear on target without encountering all these problems?

I've seen the method that Massad Ayoob recommends in his line of books, with the non-dominant hand raised to a) potentially fend off attack and b) removing that arm from the potential line of fire. That seems to be at odds with some of the ideas mentioned here regarding clamping down on the hoslter with the non-dominant arm to 'hold' the hoster during the draw.

[flintknapper]

Without asking anyone to give away any 'trade secrets' that one might derive income from, can anyone give more detail on what is 'the proper method' of bringing a handgun to bear on target without encountering all these problems?

I've seen the method that Massad Ayoob recommends in his line of books, with the non-dominant hand raised to a) potentially fend off attack and b) removing that arm from the potential line of fire. That seems to be at odds with some of the ideas mentioned here regarding clamping down on the hoslter with the non-dominant arm to 'hold' the hoster during the draw.

No trade secret...and I am happy to try and help, but I am not going to post anything further in this thread without TAM's permission. We have already hijacked his thread.

[flintknapper]

TAM...I should have something to present in a couple of days.

I am going to start a new thread, but will reference back to this one.

The new thread is going to be photo intensive (warning)....but it will illustrate the two draw strokes I use the most. I will give the reason(s) I do it that way....and then open the thread for discussion/questions/comments on Horizontal Shoulder Carry in general.

LT was gracious enough to donate his time as a "model", so I could take some pics that clearly show the "track" of the muzzle.

Anyway, the thread will be titled Shoulder Holster Solutions if you have any interest in it.

Thank you for your patience...and for allowing us to stray a bit off topic in your thread.

Flint.

[Kevinf2349]

TAM - Nice rig

I have always wanted a "over shoulder boomstick holder" but I rarely wear a jacket or coat these days. I do have a few questions about carrying in this manner though.

Does a shoulder rig work better with a full size pistol or doesn't it make much difference?
Is retention an issue with a bigger frame pistol?
It has been stated that higher and tighter make for a better draw but I still can't help wondering how much the holster 'travels' with the gun when you draw, is this an issue?
If the gun is under your armpit does this effect the natural lay of your arm? (In other words...Does it tend to make you look like you have lost a roll of carpet from under your arm?)

I am really curious to read the new thread about drawing from one.

I love this forum.

[flintknapper]

Kevinf2349 wrote:

Does a shoulder rig work better with a full size pistol or doesn't it make much difference?

As long as you can easily reach the weapon and properly "counter balance it", it makes no difference. I would add however....that a smaller, lighter weapon will be easier to draw and point...than a larger/heavier one, (but that is true... regardless the mode of carry).

Is retention an issue with a bigger frame pistol?

I don't find "retention" to be problem at all. It is a subject I will address in the new thread.

It has been stated that higher and tighter make for a better draw but I still can't help wondering how much the holster 'travels' with the gun when you draw, is this an issue?

Another subject we will cover. But to answer your question, a well fitted holster doesn't move very much.

If the gun is under your armpit does this effect the natural lay of your arm? (In other words...Does it tend to make you look like you have lost a roll of carpet from under your arm?)

That is a possibility depending upon how large a pistol you carry and what your physique is. For most folks...it is not an issue. Those new to shoulder carry may unknowingly (and unnecessarily) move the arm away until they get used to the feel.

If you carry a semi-auto...then for the most part...only the slide is under the arm. A short barreled revolver will begin to get some of the cylinder under your arm.

I am really curious to read the new thread about drawing from one.

Stay posted then.

[The Annoyed Man]

Flint, I don't feel hijacked at all, and I'm looking forward to see what you post as I am very interested. I've been running through this in my head, and I realize that at best, my draw stroke is going to be a bit clumsy and slowed down for a while until I get it right.

Kevinf2349, as far as pistol size, I ordered my rig with two holsters (with matching mag carriers). One fits both my 5" and 3" 1911s, and the other fits my USP Compact .40. So I've worn it with a subcompact, compact, and full sized pistols. The only real difference is the weight. The 5" 1911 is noticeably longer than either of the other two pistols, but with a vest or other outer garment, it isn't really any more noticeable. That said, it is heavier.

One the saving graces of the rig is that the extra magazines carried on the other side can counterbalance the weight of the gun. With the 3" Stainless Ultra Carry II, the two extra mags feel almost even with the pistol. The pistol weighs more, but neither side weighs enough to be a problem. The two 12 round extra mags for the USPc balance the weight of the gun nicely, but the additional weight is noticeable, although not a big deal.

And the 5" 1911 (steel framed) would need about 5 extra mags to balance its weight.