3d printers to make your own ar15 !!!

[Jumping Frog]

I am not that up on federal law about building a firearm for your own use, but from what I can rememeber when studying up on the subject several decades ago, you can, but I am guessing the ATF frowns on it even so. I alos think you have to register the serial number with the BATF - someone correct me on this if they know the particulars.

It is perfectly legal to manufacture firearms for your own personal use. They do not need to have a serial number. However, they can never be legally sold to anyone else.

There is already quite a history with people doing this with so-called "80% frame". An "80% frame" is actually a "special case" with the BATF and it applies to metal castings that are used to form the basis for gun parts. In this case what we are talking about is a metal casting that has been "almost" completed. It was cast and then all the milling work was done to it.....but they stopped before they cut the slide rails (or any other combo of cuts that add up to 20% of the milling steps). Because the manufacturer stopped working on the piece BEFORE he/she finished it....this piece is still in a state of limbo so to speak....it isn't really a "Gun" but it isn't really a raw hunk of metal either.

The castings do NOT have any serial numbers or roll marks on them (normally the last step in the manufacturing process). In this form they are still considered to be just pieces of metal as far as the BATF and the Brady bill are concerned. If the manufacturer takes them 1 more step further...if becomes a frame or receiver and is legally a firearm, subject to all the BATF laws and regulations. Remember that as far as the BATF is concerned, the frame/receiver IS the firearm, and everything else are just parts.

So it is perfectly legal to order an 80% frame/receiver from the distributor and there is no paperwork at all involved. You do not need to be an FFL dealer, anyone that wants one can just call and give their credit card number and *poof* out it goes in the mail.

Ok.....sounds really cool huh? So what's the rub? Well the bottom line is...YOU (and only you) have to finish the final machining process on it yourself. There are no serial numbers and the firearm (once it is complete)can NEVER....let me say that again so you understand it...NEVER, EVER be sold to anyone else....period ! It is a firearm for "personal use only".

If you do it this way (build it yourself) then you are acting as a firearms manufacturer and that is perfectly legal as long as it is for personal use only. Kinda like it's legal to make all the homemade wine/beer that you want as long as it is not for resale....(well same basic idea any ways).

You can do the frame rails (in the case of a Colt 1911) with only a file if you want to but it would take a long time. I recommend a mini-mill to finish out the last 20% like the professionals do. (the mini-mill is a great investment and they cost less than 700 bucks brand new).

There are 80% frames available for Colt 1911's, AR-15's, FAL's, Sig P-228's, PPK's and many other styles.(another reason to buy your own Mill ). You would just need to buy a parts kit to complete your new gun.

So these 3D printers are just a new twist on personal manufacturing that already has a long history with 80% frames.

[C-dub]

Is the reason it can't be sold because it doesn't have any serial number?

[drjoker]

Is the reason it can't be sold because it doesn't have any serial number?

Yes, that is correct. No serial number means it cannot be sold. Just to avoid problems with the ATF accusing you of getting it from someone else, I suggest that you engrave your name on the gun to prove that you're the original owner.

Personally, I wouldn't fabricate the lower receiver for that reason. You never know. You may need the cash someday so retaining the option to sell it would be a wise financial decision. However, fabricating all the other parts would be a fun way of customizing it. You could do some really cool stuff like engrave illustrations and other art on it to personalize it.

[C-dub]

Is the reason it can't be sold because it doesn't have any serial number?

Yes, that is correct. No serial number means it cannot be sold. Just to avoid problems with the ATF accusing you of getting it from someone else, I suggest that you engrave your name on the gun to prove that you're the original owner.

Personally, I wouldn't fabricate the lower receiver for that reason. You never know. You may need the cash someday so retaining the option to sell it would be a wise financial decision. However, fabricating all the other parts would be a fun way of customizing it. You could do some really cool stuff like engrave illustrations and other art on it to personalize it.

No worries. I don't have the knowledge, ability, or desire to make my own firearm.

[Dave2]

Is the reason it can't be sold because it doesn't have any serial number?

Yes, that is correct. No serial number means it cannot be sold. Just to avoid problems with the ATF accusing you of getting it from someone else, I suggest that you engrave your name on the gun to prove that you're the original owner.

Just to pick nits... All that does is prove that at some point, somebody, for some reason, decided to write a name on it that happens to match yours.

As unreasonable as the ATF has been, if they've decided that the gun wasn't made by you I would rely on the "innocent until proven guilty" aspect of our legal system.

And does the lack of a serial # mean that it can't transfer owners at all, or just that it can't be sold? What about giving them as gifts, or being inherited?

[apostate]

Is the reason it can't be sold because it doesn't have any serial number?

Yes, that is correct. No serial number means it cannot be sold.

I believe you're mistaken. There exist firearms manufactured before the law required serial numbers. They may still be legally sold subject to the same rules as similar firearms with serial numbers.

[C-dub]

I know it's wikipedia and all, but this is what I found. According to the firearms act of 1968,

The law also required that all newly-manufactured firearms produced by licensed manufacturers in the United States and imported into the United States bear a serial number. Firearms manufactured prior to the Gun Control Act and firearms manufactured by non-FFLs remain exempt from the serial number requirement. Defacement or removal of the serial number (if present) is a felony offense.

So, since I am not a licensed manufacturer I would not be required to put a serial number on any firearm I made. However, I think we have already established that. Maybe, it looks like I can make and sell a firearms without a serial number, but just not across state lines. If I'm understanding this correctly.

[Jumping Frog]

Is the reason it can't be sold because it doesn't have any serial number?

The reason it can't be sold is you are not licensed as a federal firearms manufacturer.

[C-dub]

Is the reason it can't be sold because it doesn't have any serial number?

The reason it can't be sold is you are not licensed as a federal firearms manufacturer.

Then I'm in real trouble. I've sold two guns to two different people within the last year without any paperwork at all. Or is that just without serial numbers?

[Jumping Frog]

Then I'm in real trouble. I've sold two guns to two different people within the last year without any paperwork at all. Or is that just without serial numbers?

No, private party sales of existing firearms are legal. You just aren't allowed to manufacture the firearms and then sell them.

Note that assembling a gun from purchased parts is not "manufacturing". Legally, the frame or receiver is the actual firearm -- everything else (stock, barrel, trigger, etc.) are just parts that are attached to the firearm frame or receiver. When you purchase a frame or receiver from a licensed manufacturer, you are certainly allowed to resell it just like any other gun.

All frames/receivers that are sold to the public must be by a licensed manufacturer or importer. All licensed manufacturers or importers must put a serial number on the frame, but that isn't the key point -- don't get distracted the serial number. The key point is a frame or receiver that can be sold must be from a licensed manufacturer.

If you are not a licensed manufacturer or importer, you cannot sell a frame/receiver that you manufactured. Period. It has nothing to do with the serial number, it is because you are not licensed to manufacture.

[Ameer]

If you are not a licensed manufacturer or importer, you cannot sell a frame/receiver that you manufactured. Period. It has nothing to do with the serial number, it is because you are not licensed to manufacture.

Kind of like reloading ammo. For yourself is legal but you need a license if you want to sell it.

[TLE2]

The already have metal printers but it's more like pot metal than stainless steel. And generally the parts need some cleanup (metal printers).

I remember a scifi story about "the machine that made the machine that made the part". I will live, God willing, to see that day, it appears.

Can you imagine printing out a stainless steel slide for a 1911 complete with fine decoration and engraving lacking only for a bit of machining on the contact surfaces! As the "dot size" gets smaller on these over time, machining may not even be necessary.

This is cool stuff!

[flb_78]

and then the robots started building better robots...

[VMI77]

I remember a cable TV show about 20 years ago which showed village "artisans" manufacturing AKs from scratch in a small Pakistani village

I'm curious, how did they rifle the barrels?

[The Annoyed Man]

I remember a cable TV show about 20 years ago which showed village "artisans" manufacturing AKs from scratch in a small Pakistani village

I'm curious, how did they rifle the barrels?

Not a clue. I just know that they built the receivers from raw metal, over a fire pit, using tongs, a hammer, and an anvil.......and maybe a set of files and a hacksaw or something. I mean, it was really primitive. They could have been making their own barrels, or using salvaged barrels or something. I just don't really remember. And it might have been 30 years ago, not 20. It might have been at the same time that the USSR was still in Afghanistan or thereabouts.

OTH, it was also some channel like Nat Geo, which tends to not have a very libertine view of private gun ownership, and they may well have just been trying to scare the audience. As I recall, the show was about the "unregulated" arms trade in Pakistan or something like that. It has been a long time.

But I did see a program as recently as just the last 4 or 5 years about artisan gun-makers in India who are making essentially reproductions of old muskets, under similar conditions as those in Pakistan, and they were actually making their own barrels. But, I don't recall if they were rifled or not.