Batons ..

[WildBill]

I do not belong to any such group, but I imagine there are a couple of knife forums who have a concealed weapons permit on their agenda.

[speedsix]

...a collapsible metal baton is an awesome defense weapon IF the carrier is properly trained...a small girl could take down a big attacker if she knew what she was doing...but the bad thing about clubs/sticks/batons is that it's really easy to kill or cripple a person if you don't have the proper training...and the general public isn't trained and may not have access to that training...there's a lot more to be considered than just whipping it out and taking a stance...and I'm the first to admit that I'm too old and slow(and fat) to be able to handle it like I was trained to...I'd like to see our CHL cover any concealed weapon like some states' do...but an old guy like me shouldn't bring a baton to a gunfight!!!

[OldCurlyWolf]

...a collapsible metal baton is an awesome defense weapon IF the carrier is properly trained...a small girl could take down a big attacker if she knew what she was doing...but the bad thing about clubs/sticks/batons is that it's really easy to kill or cripple a person if you don't have the proper training...and the general public isn't trained and may not have access to that training...there's a lot more to be considered than just whipping it out and taking a stance...and I'm the first to admit that I'm too old and slow(and fat) to be able to handle it like I was trained to...I'd like to see our CHL cover any concealed weapon like some states' do...but an old guy like me shouldn't bring a baton to a gunfight!!!

ME too, too old and fat to use a baton nearly as well as my 3' long Heartwood of Cedar walking stick.

Several years back a smart alec pulled a knife in my presence semi-seriously. I looked at him, looked at my walking stick and said "Stick Beats Knife". He put it away with some alacrity.

Any thing short of being seriously outnumbered or a firearm and I am quite well armed with that walking stick. My next one will be between 5 & 6 feet long to be used much like a Quarterstaff.

[speedsix]

...I still remember in boot camp being beaten senseless with the pugil stick...till time came to play knife against stick...and I got him before he could swat me once...I like a good knife to this day...but I believe a good stick at least 36" oughta keep all but the best trained at bay...mine these days is a length of crepe myrtle I trashed that took up space beside my garage...cost was nothing...not as gorgeous as some pictured here but just as effective...
...a lot of younguns lack one thing we old farts have...the will to win no matter what...

[The Annoyed Man]

...but an old guy like me shouldn't bring a baton to a gunfight!!!

BINGO! For the win. I alluded to my hawthorn root cane in an earlier post, but it was only my primary means of defense (in public) when I lived in a state which denied me the right to carry a gun. But I too am "an old guy who shouldn't bring a baton to a gunfight."

On this board, we've been over countless types of "what ifs" — is a punch deadly force; must I receive blows before I can defend myself with deadly force; are the standards different for the elderly and/or infirm than they are for the young and/or fit and healthy; etc., etc., etc.? For comfort, I turn to the law.

The law deliberately uses words like "reasonable" and "reasonably." Although some might dispute it ( ), I am a reasonable guy, and I am capable of making the determination on my own authority as to when deadly force is reasonably necessary.

Speaking both from my own experience of years spent working in an ER, and from my own personal inclinations, a baton or a club or a nightstick or an Asp or a cane or whatever is a deadly weapon. If you can kill another human being with it, then it is as much of a deadly weapon as is a gun, and its use against another human being constitutes use of deadly force. Only you can determine if its use is justified in the heat of the moment. But you better be dang certain that you reasonably believed it, because if you're wrong, a prosecutor and judge are going to straighten you out on that right quick by proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are not a reasonable person and that you must spend some time as a ward of the state to get your mind right.

For an old fart such as me (and presumably speedsix), I do not have the physical wherewithal to engage in such horseplay. If I can justify the use of my cane (or a baton or club or bat) in self-defense, then I can justify the use of a gun. The gun allows me to maintain enough distance between me and the foe that I don't have to "go to ground" with him - where I would lose the fight. I would only use a striking weapon of some kind as a last resort if the gun were not available to me first, because the physical danger to me would be vastly magnified, and the law does not require a reasonable person to unreasonably place themselves in even greater danger before they can exercise the option to defend themselves.

[speedsix]

...have not seen it put so well before from the old man's perspective...thanks...the choice of words matters to a grand jury...you've got a gift there...

[The Annoyed Man]

...have not seen it put so well before from the old man's perspective...thanks...the choice of words matters to a grand jury...you've got a gift there...

Why thank you. Too bad IANAL and all that good stuff.

[speedsix]

...you ain't provokin' ME into no lawyer jokes this mornin'...not me...not here, no!!!

[Heartland Patriot]

I know this is an old thread (and that there are various jokes to go with that)...However, I still have not been able to ascertain that a WALKING STICK (literally a length of fairly straight wood cut right out of a tree limb/bush) is legal to carry around with you. Specifically, my wife and I want to start walking in the evenings. We live in a subdivision that is on the very edge of town. There are places in the subdivision where there are no houses and the open spaces are pretty much just country, as far as a city area goes. Is it okay to carry a walking stick doing something like this? If a LEO drove by, are they likely to have a problem with me just walking with it? I'm thinking more about snakes than people here, though in general I would give a snake its space...I grew up in rattlesnake infested South Texas (and nobody would have given a walking stick a second glance down there), so I know a bit about them. Anyway, is a walking stick a club by definition, or does the LEO get to decide it is, or what? Thanks in advance.

[RPB]

I know this is an old thread (and that there are various jokes to go with that)...However, I still have not been able to ascertain that a WALKING STICK (literally a length of fairly straight wood cut right out of a tree limb/bush) is legal to carry around with you. Specifically, my wife and I want to start walking in the evenings. We live in a subdivision that is on the very edge of town. There are places in the subdivision where there are no houses and the open spaces are pretty much just country, as far as a city area goes. Is it okay to carry a walking stick doing something like this? If a LEO drove by, are they likely to have a problem with me just walking with it? I'm thinking more about snakes than people here, though in general I would give a snake its space...I grew up in rattlesnake infested South Texas (and nobody would have given a walking stick a second glance down there), so I know a bit about them. Anyway, is a walking stick a club by definition, or does the LEO get to decide it is, or what? Thanks in advance.

==========================================================================
Tree branches?
We just found these sticks and were taking them to get them out of the road ...
------------------------------
just a quick search ... and I don't have access to Shepards Citations etc to research much nowadays

TRENT WINTERS, Appellant v. THE STATE OF TEXAS, Appellee

NO. 14-00-00400-CR

COURT OF APPEALS OF TEXAS, FOURTEENTH DISTRICT, HOUSTON

2001 Tex. App. LEXIS 6691

October 4, 2001, Rendered

October 4, 2001, Opinion Filed
http://webservices.lexisnexis.com/lx1/c ... 1loc=FCLOW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
. BACKGROUND
appellant beat Mr. Nealy with an instrument described as a stick, walking cane, or baseball bat.
II. LEGAL AND FACTUAL INSUFFICIENCY
appellant contends, although the record reveals that the instrument allegedly used was some type of bat, walking stick, or "big stick," the record does not reveal that the instrument used against Mr. Nealy had been made, designed, or adapted to strike an individual and cause serious bodily injury or death.
Appellant argues that "an object does not constitute a 'club' simply because it is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury."


Holding:
Viewed as a whole, the evidence is factually sufficient to show appellant struck Mr. Nealy with an "instrument used as a club." Accordingly, appellant's second point of error is overruled.
=====================================================================


So, In my Layman's opinion, a fighting cane/Shillelagh Walking Cane/walking stick are perfectly legal to carry, there's no real "prohibition" against walking canes in the Penal code ...I think the Americans With Disabilities Act would demand that you can carry them anywhere

but .... striking someone ... a Court/jury may find it to be a club

I ain't a lawyer.... my layman's opinion is worth what it costs.

[Heartland Patriot]

@RPB:

Thank you for the prompt reply...so, basically okay to WALK with it, but USING it against a PERSON is what would make it a club. That makes sense, but we all know how that often goes. Have a good one.

[RPB]

@RPB:

Thank you for the prompt reply...so, basically okay to WALK with it, but USING it against a PERSON is what would make it a club. That makes sense, but we all know how that often goes. Have a good one.

That case involved an offensive use...


but Defensively ... "Necessity" is a justification

"I carry it to walk with, I used it out of necessity when I was attacked"

Texas Penal Code, Sec. 9.22. Necessity.


PENAL CODE
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... 9.htm#9.22" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
TITLE 2. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

SUBCHAPTER B. JUSTIFICATION GENERALLY
Sec. 9.22. NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;

(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct; and

(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.


SUBCHAPTER C. PROTECTION OF PERSONS

Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE.
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
Sec. 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON.
Sec. 9.34. PROTECTION OF LIFE OR HEALTH.
etc


I still ain't a lawyer; I sometimes carry a 6-D-cell metal flashlight/Maglight, if attacked, it can be quite a defensive tool. I have a cane, but intend to make my own when I have time. I also carry a 3-foot long heavy keychain and know chain fighting. It's just a flashlight/cane/keychain, etc ...unless their a necessity to use it otherwise ... just like a hairbrush/rat-tailed comb girls have in purses.
Lots of snakes here too ... even in my yard ...
I also carry a revolver with cci snakeshot sometimes in addition to my Glock.

[blackdog8200]

Could make a come back

[RPB]

Could make a come back

Those are AOW ... Any Other Weapon BATFE regulated ... I wanted one but only ever found antiques

[RPB]

Thiis morning:
75 degrees outside; 80 inside w/ air cond ... so I open up the house:
dogs across street bark; man and wife taking morning walk, he's carrying illegal club, Ill talk to him if they pass by again, sprays/cane/tree branch//CHL///"shillelagh". It's Irish for a walking cane (that can be conveniently used as a club or cudgel). Usually ornamentally carved.