The best carry ammo for a .45

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kw5kw
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Post by kw5kw »

AV8R wrote:<snip>
The key, as everyone has said, is to find a reliable feeder for your pistol. If it is reliable with practice ammo, like Winchester 230-grain round-nose, move to some 230 grain hollowpoints, try them, and go from there. Make changes based on bullet lengths and shapes if you have to, until you get reliability. That said, I carry 185, 200, and 230 grain Speer loads, and they all work fine in my .45s. If you have a compact pistol, use a "short-barrel load", or a lighter bulet weight, if you can, to help compensate for the velocity loss that happens with a short barrel.
hmmm....
makes me think, and ask....

With what you just wrote that I highlighted in Bold, a 5" barrel might shoot a 230 grain better than a 4" barrel and the same... a 4" barrel would shoot a 230 grain better than 3" barrel. Interesting as I hadn't thought of that before; is that what you're stating?

So my 4" might be happier with a 180-200 grain and a 3" might be happier with a 150-180 grain.
Russ
kw5kw

Retired DPS Communications Operator PCO III January 2014.
AV8R

Post by AV8R »

kw5kw wrote:
AV8R wrote:<snip>
The key, as everyone has said, is to find a reliable feeder for your pistol. If it is reliable with practice ammo, like Winchester 230-grain round-nose, move to some 230 grain hollowpoints, try them, and go from there. Make changes based on bullet lengths and shapes if you have to, until you get reliability. That said, I carry 185, 200, and 230 grain Speer loads, and they all work fine in my .45s. If you have a compact pistol, use a "short-barrel load", or a lighter bulet weight, if you can, to help compensate for the velocity loss that happens with a short barrel.
hmmm....
makes me think, and ask....

With what you just wrote that I highlighted in Bold, a 5" barrel might shoot a 230 grain better than a 4" barrel and the same... a 4" barrel would shoot a 230 grain better than 3" barrel. Interesting as I hadn't thought of that before; is that what you're stating?

So my 4" might be happier with a 180-200 grain and a 3" might be happier with a 150-180 grain.
That's a possibility, but one cannot assume that there is a linear relationship between bullet weight and barrel length for correct feeding and functioning. It's an individual thing. It all depends on magazine, breech-face angle, ramp, chamber, springs, slide weight, etc. For a variety of reasons, smaller guns cannot be made as reliable (or stated another way, cannot be designed with the latitude to accomodate as wide a range of round designs) as full-length guns. The key is to select ammo for a particular gun based on round length, ogive curvature, and mass. One combination (or range) of the above will usually feed and cycle better than the others. Brand names and FBI tests are the last things to consider.

Remember, it takes a certain threshold velocity for hollowpoints to expand. With very short barrels, lighter bullets may be necessary to get enough velocity for reliable expansion. So you have, in effect, a smaller gun, both in size and energetics. In physics, you always have to rob Peter to pay Paul somewhere.
MrDrummy
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Post by MrDrummy »

[quote:]They feed fine in my Pro CDP. I use Wilson mags.
Which K do you shoot & whose mags? Just curious. Never heard of that combination being incompatable.[/quote]


Hey LT.

I'm shooting a Kimber Ultra Carry (No CDP here) and using Wilson 47OX. I love the pistol, and have loved everything through it, but out of a box of 20 230gr Speer Gold Dots, 3 of them misfed, where over 100 Hydrashok and other jhps have functioned flawlessly. Two of the misfeeds were easily fixed with a stiff bump to the butt of the slide, but one of them was jammed in there real good.

Maybe some of you bullet "geeks" could tell me if there is a shape difference in the bullets or something.

I did put a couple of boxes of 200gr +P Gold Dots through with no problems, though. Still not sure if the +P makes up for "barrel challenged" pistol. Some say it does, others say it's good for nothing more than creating nuclear fission at the muzzle, though I didn't particularly mind the way they felt to shoot.
Mike1951
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Post by Mike1951 »

Recently, I was chronographing some loads in my Kahr P45, 3.54" barrel.

The 230gr HydraShoks performed best of all loads. The factory specs are 850fps from a 5" barrel.

Ten rounds averaged 853fps from my 3.5" barrel at 10' from muzzle.

Speer 230gr Gold Dot Short Barrel:
Factory specs 820fps/4"
Mine 797fps/3.5" @10'


Winchester 230gr Ranger SXT
Factory specs 905fps/5"
Mine 815fps/3.5" @10'

Reminton L45AP7B 230gr JHP (WalMart 100pk)
Factory specs 835fps/5"
Mine 797fps/3.5" @10'

The Speer's lower velocity doesn't necessarily mean lower performance.
The design of the round was to provide better bullet performance with moderate recoil.
Mike
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AV8R

Post by AV8R »

Mike1951 wrote:Recently, I was chronographing some loads in my Kahr P45, 3.54" barrel.

The 230gr HydraShoks performed best of all loads. The factory specs are 850fps from a 5" barrel.

Ten rounds averaged 853fps from my 3.5" barrel at 10' from muzzle.

Speer 230gr Gold Dot Short Barrel:
Factory specs 820fps/4"
Mine 797fps/3.5" @10'


Winchester 230gr Ranger SXT
Factory specs 905fps/5"
Mine 815fps/3.5" @10'

Reminton L45AP7B 230gr JHP (WalMart 100pk)
Factory specs 835fps/5"
Mine 797fps/3.5" @10'

The Speer's lower velocity doesn't necessarily mean lower performance.
The design of the round was to provide better bullet performance with moderate recoil.
To see what's really going on here, it would be very interesting to do a controlled experiment with each ammo type, by chronoing a few from the same box shot first from a 5" barrel, then from the 3.5" barrel. That might eliminate odd results like the Fed HS ammo showing higher velocity when fired from a 3.5" barrel. Nevertheless, it is interesting that the HS gave the highest round energy of the ammo tested. Do you use it as your carry load in the P45?
Mike1951
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Post by Mike1951 »

AV8R wrote:To see what's really going on here, it would be very interesting to do a controlled experiment with each ammo type, by chronoing a few from the same box shot first from a 5" barrel, then from the 3.5" barrel. That might eliminate odd results like the Fed HS ammo showing higher velocity when fired from a 3.5" barrel. Nevertheless, it is interesting that the HS gave the highest round energy of the ammo tested. Do you use it as your carry load in the P45?
I'll try to get back to the range with a 5" and do some comparative testing.

I still haven't decided which load will be my carry load, as the Kahr has not yet proved reliable enough to carry.

At present, I have been waiting since October 16th for a replacement P45 from Kahr. They agreed to fire 200 rounds through the new pistol prior to shipment.

The photos of the Speer Short Barrel expanded bullets through different media are very impressive. Velocity is not the entire issue. Speer has designed a round that provides excellent expansion and moderate recoil within the velocities attained.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 0806#40806
Mike
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TSRA Life Member
NRA Benefactor Member
AV8R

Post by AV8R »

Mike1951 wrote:
AV8R wrote:To see what's really going on here, it would be very interesting to do a controlled experiment with each ammo type, by chronoing a few from the same box shot first from a 5" barrel, then from the 3.5" barrel. That might eliminate odd results like the Fed HS ammo showing higher velocity when fired from a 3.5" barrel. Nevertheless, it is interesting that the HS gave the highest round energy of the ammo tested. Do you use it as your carry load in the P45?
I'll try to get back to the range with a 5" and do some comparative testing.

I still haven't decided which load will be my carry load, as the Kahr has not yet proved reliable enough to carry.

At present, I have been waiting since October 16th for a replacement P45 from Kahr. They agreed to fire 200 rounds through the new pistol prior to shipment.

The photos of the Speer Short Barrel expanded bullets through different media are very impressive. Velocity is not the entire issue. Speer has designed a round that provides excellent expansion and moderate recoil within the velocities attained.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 0806#40806
I'm sorry to hear the Kahr is giving problems. Hope you get that fixed. I am also a fan of Speer technology and use it for carry in 9mm and .45, but I'm still a little reluctant to use anything but hardball in the 1911. We're looking forward to your range work on 5" barrels.
MrDrummy
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Post by MrDrummy »

Yeah, I'd look forward to those results as well.

Let me say again how much I wish that I lived withing driving distance of some of you folks, because I'd love to help out with the testing, if I could!
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