Idaho: Body camera video of LEO shooting man with knife

[gigag04]

Laygo, the officer DID retreat. Appeared he backpeddaled all the way to the door. Going farther would've put him in danger of tripping/falling over threshold or steps.

...or going down the steps and calling for backup. If the now deceased wanted to hurt himself ITMT, let him...

Can't tell if serious....but I'll bite, one last time.

LEO's don't have that luxury of "letting" the mentally ill do as they please when they are in crisis.

Had he simply allowed the man to kill, injure, or maim himself, the family would've been the first to sue the city for failure to act. Once an officer shows up, he is responsible for that person's safety, as far as the public is concerned. That is why LEOs now have mandated training on contacting and interacting with the mentally ill.

OG, you may question the shooting all you wish, but I am getting the impression that your comments are troll bait....I could be wrong though.

[mojo84]

That was intense! Shows how rapidly things can change. Going from investigating a simple traffic accident to being in a lethal encounter would certainly have gotten my adrenaline through the roof. Definitely a good shoot by this officer in my opinion.

But.....was it a necessary shoot? Just askin'.....

No it wasn't. The guy could have dropped the knife and obeyed the officer instead of advancing toward him.

[03Lightningrocks]

I dunno folks. I can tell you I would not ask an officer of the law to risk his life to keep a nut bag alive. It is pretty common knowledge that attacking a police officer with a knife can get you shot.

I'm sure not going to judge your opinion oldgringo, I like you too much. But I would sure like to know what your thinking is. You and I are allowed to bust a move and run away if we choose. Police officers aren't suppose to run away. As an officer of the law, he is the person who is suppose to go to the scene. Once he saw the situation and was aproached by the nut bag, Back peddling out the door and down the stairs could have easily lead to the officer tripping and being stabbed. Even a fat man like me can run forward quicker than a cop can back peddle. If the cop turned around to run forward out the door, the guy would have been able to get his back. I don't care how tough or big you are, let me get your back and I will take you down.

I just don't see what else could be done oldgringo.

[Oldgringo]

Well, none of us were there and none of us of knew the deceased and any backgrounds. On the video, it appears to be a righteous shoot by the LONE (?) LEO; however, to the cynic in me, it seems too convenient. The woman who let the LEO into the domicile at the start didn't appear overly distraught - or did I miss that part? Let's see There were two men and one woman involved. Three sides makes a what? Yes! Three sides makes a triangle.

Thanks '03. I think you know that I'm all for speedy trials and public hangins', but something about this whole thing just don't pass the 'sniff test' with me. Maybe it's my sniffer? Perhaps someone can follow this story in the news, yes?

[03Lightningrocks]

Well, none of us were there and none of us of knew the deceased and any backgrounds. On the video, it appears to be a righteous shoot by the LONE (?) LEO; however, to the cynic in me, it seems too convenient. The woman who let the LEO into the domicile at the start didn't appear overly distraught - or did I miss that part? Let's see There were two men and one woman involved. Three sides makes a what? Yes! Three sides makes a triangle.

Thanks '03. I think you know that I'm all for speedy trials and public hangins', but something about this whole thing just don't pass the 'sniff test' with me. Maybe it's my sniffer? Perhaps someone can follow this story in the news, yes?

Thanks for the response. I understand your thinking. One thing that makes some difference is that the guy had crashed a car or something and ran away. I got the impression the officer was originally in pursuit of a perp fleeing the scene of an accident. That would further explain why the officer would proceed to go in after the guy. Like you, I will be interested to follow how it all shakes out.

Reading your usual responses over the years, I was actually surprised to see you take the view point you did. If we had a BG rounded up and a person said "get the rope", I figured you would be the first one to say "I got it". I know how you back woods fellers are about horse thieves.

[A-R]

As I understand it, this has already shook out with the prosecutor declining to bring charges against the officer.

Of course, still could be internal police department reprimand (doubt it) or civil suit. But this incident happened in August.

[jmra]

If this was in fact suicide by cop, I don't think there is much the officer could have done differently. If someone is set on ensuring a cop shoots them, in all likely hood they are going to get their wish.

[Oldgringo]

If this was in fact suicide by cop, I don't think there is much the officer could have done differently. If someone is set on ensuring a cop shoots them, in all likely hood they are going to get their wish.

I reckon it was a righteous five shots. Coure d'alene is not some rural little burg where everyone is related and knows each other's business and such.

[tomtexan]

As I understand it, this has already shook out with the prosecutor declining to bring charges against the officer.

Of course, still could be internal police department reprimand (doubt it) or civil suit. But this incident happened in August.

I don't see that happening either. From what I see on the video, he was completely justified and if I were in his shoes, I would have done the same thing.

[JSThane]

With reference to the "were five shots necessary" question: Unless they sever the spine or destroy the brain, bullets don't immediately stop. Had Mr. Knives decided to, he could have started charging -after- the first shot, and probably still could have after the last. He was close enough to the officer that, fatal wounds or no, he had enough time to deal some significant damage to the officer with that knife, possibly even killing the officer that just killed him. Instead, he fell down, and lost the opportunity. Had he charged, the gun probably would have been emptied, and the officer probably would have been stabbed or slashed.

If someone is inside your "comfort zone" and has their "fatal funnel" pointed at you, there's not much short of a shotgun to the face that can stop them before they hurt you. The officer had maneuvered as much as he could, but he was limited by the stairs behind him (you do NOT want to try to navigate stairs backwards under adrenaline!) a wall approximately 45 degrees to his right, and another about the same to his left. Mr. Knives was able to maneuver such that his fatal funnel (area right in front of a person) was directed straight at the officer. He was directed to drop the knife, refused, directed to stop, and advanced.

Means, Opportunity, and Intent. He certainly had the means to attack the officer (knife in this case, but could be any weapon). He had the opportunity (officer directly in front, no room for the officer to move, inside attack range). And his actions showed intent.

The only remaining question is, "Was the officer present in a law enforcement capacity, and was his presence a legitimate law enforcement need?" The first answer is "yes." The second is also "yes" - he was searching for a hit-and-run driver, and he was allowed in the house by the woman, who indicated the suspect was inside, and armed.

I don't have any problems with what occurred, other than to wish the officer well in dealing with the trauma of taking a human life.

[Oldgringo]

With reference to the "were five shots necessary" question: Unless they sever the spine or destroy the brain, bullets don't immediately stop. Had Mr. Knives decided to, he could have started charging -after- the first shot, and probably still could have after the last. He was close enough to the officer that, fatal wounds or no, he had enough time to deal some significant damage to the officer with that knife, possibly even killing the officer that just killed him. Instead, he fell down, and lost the opportunity. Had he charged, the gun probably would have been emptied, and the officer probably would have been stabbed or slashed.

If someone is inside your "comfort zone" and has their "fatal funnel" pointed at you, there's not much short of a shotgun to the face that can stop them before they hurt you. The officer had maneuvered as much as he could, but he was limited by the stairs behind him (you do NOT want to try to navigate stairs backwards under adrenaline!) a wall approximately 45 degrees to his right, and another about the same to his left. Mr. Knives was able to maneuver such that his fatal funnel (area right in front of a person) was directed straight at the officer. He was directed to drop the knife, refused, directed to stop, and advanced.

Means, Opportunity, and Intent. He certainly had the means to attack the officer (knife in this case, but could be any weapon). He had the opportunity (officer directly in front, no room for the officer to move, inside attack range). And his actions showed intent.

The only remaining question is, "Was the officer present in a law enforcement capacity, and was his presence a legitimate law enforcement need?" The first answer is "yes." The second is also "yes" - he was searching for a hit-and-run driver, and he was allowed in the house by the woman, who indicated the suspect was inside, and armed.

I don't have any problems with what occurred, other than to wish the officer well in dealing with the trauma of taking a human life.

Well said.

[JSThane]

To be fair, this is something I've thought about a little; one of the training scenarios I had at my academy was almost exactly this. The only difference is in my training scenario, the "suspect" didn't stop charging no matter how many times he was hit (and the "suspect" had to be at least 6'6"!). I think the "suspect" was further away, too (by a few feet), but he still covered the distance in about the time it took to panic-fire an entire magazine. I was briefed on the scenario, warned that he claimed to have already killed one person, knew he had a knife, was able to dump (most) of a magazine on him, and still got slashed. I'm just glad it was a fake knife, and I pray never to have to face someone coming at me with a real knife.

This officer was facing in reality what was my hypothetical "worst-case scenario," and got out of it alive and unhurt.

[WildBill]

It's really disturbing to me that we have gotten to the point where most people feel the need to have audio/video recordings of everything they do so they can "prove" that they did everything according to policy and the law or to prove that they didn't do anything to break any law.

[Oldgringo]

It's really disturbing to me that we have gotten to the point where most people feel the need to have audio/video recordings of everything they do so they can "prove" that they did everything according to policy and the law or to prove that they didn't do anything to break any law.

We have become a litigious society....and who instigates and profits from the litigation?

[WildBill]

It's really disturbing to me that we have gotten to the point where most people feel the need to have audio/video recordings of everything they do so they can "prove" that they did everything according to policy and the law or to prove that they didn't do anything to break any law.

We have become a litigious society....and who instigates and profits from the litigation?

I assume that it's not you or you wouldn't be posting.