anygunanywhere wrote:
Seeing as how I do not use illicit drugs, rarely exceed the speed limit, have a clean record, a Texas CHL, am polite and courteous to LEO when I do get tagged for something, I doubt seriously that I will ever be requested to submit to a search.
I match that description, but have an added attribute. I put my hands on top of the wheel or keep them on the open window. To some LEOs, this is a sign of respect. To others, it indicates that I'm nervous and hiding something. Legitimately, I usually am nervous, but not because I'm hiding anything.
I semi-shamefully gave up sports cars a little while back due to lifestyle changes. That should help some.
There's a good chance you'll never go through something similar...
I have been the recipient of unlawfu searches multiple times. When I was in the navy I was arrested twice on railroaded charges including planted drugs. In high school I objected to the way I was being treated and was beat with a 5 cell flashlight by a Baytown cop.
I have my reasons for standing up for my rights. I find it disgraceful that since I am an older adult that I will likely be taken seriously if I stand up for my rights and that my rights were trampled on as a young man.
Anygunanywhere
I have never met and don't personally know Mr. Anygunanywhere. But I have personal knowledge of harassment and false charges filed against people simply because they didn't comply with the police or were a "hippie" and had long hair.
VMI77 wrote: I love dogs, and probably would have waited to see him.
I love dogs too. I just don't want them jumping on my car, much less on the hood. Based on what I've seen, K-9 searches often involve claws on paint...
FYI, the other bluffs that I got and didn't buy:
1) We already have probable cause, please sign this consent. (Really?)
2) Let us search and we'll write you a ticket. Don't let us search and you're going to jail.
3) We already know you have something. Just show us where it is.
The silver lining was I think they felt bad about all the hassle and didn't issue a traffic citation.
Again, very much the exception to typical treatment...
I am much more comfortable if I know a LEO has recording equipment and it is on. I get super nervous when the lights on the car go off during a traffic stop, as that may indicate that auto-record just stopped.
Yeah, that was tongue-in-cheek.....but I just might have told him something like that to see if he was bluffing.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."
anygunanywhere wrote:
I find it disgraceful that since I am an older adult that I will likely be taken seriously if I stand up for my rights and that my rights were trampled on as a young man.
That has been my experience also. And that's why I'm telling Cedar Park Dad to teach his son what I had to learn the hard way - you will not get a fair shake as a young person. Don't fight it. Don't get mad, but do be smart about it. Some respect is afforded with age perhaps due to follow through and financial means (access to legal help).
I saw today that one of the officers involved in my "search" incident was arrested and charged with assault yesterday.... The assault took place while on the job. The officer denied it, but there was a witness.. I find it interesting that it was a misdemeanor charge, rather than the felony that would have occurred if the roles were reversed. And of the two officers in my incident, he was the "better behaved" of the two. PM me if you want a link or reference.
Last edited by cb1000rider on Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is making the news at the moment. Not sure this falls under "rights" but a BART policeman orders a man off of the train. He refuses. Man was apparently drunk.
Witneses at the scene report that he was not doing anything not bothering anyone. Apparently the witnesses at the scene were very upset at the officers actions.
jbarn wrote:
You cannot leave us hanging. What was the result?
texanjoker wrote:
Probably the same nonsense like all the people that have told me they would have my badge......
I caved. If he had a nothing hand and was bluffing, I bought it. I honestly believe he would have towed the car and cost me 12 hours. It's not like Wilco is known for that sort of thing. Sorry to disappoint, Joker...
Talking back or asserting your "rights" one on one against a LEO without a witness or without a recording, it's never going to work out well. I'm idealistic, but not dumb.
I've caved facing an unwarranted search also. There were several bluffs, but the one that I bought was, "we're bringing to dog from Travis county, it make take up to an hour and that dog will be all over your car - including on the hood, the roof, etc". Caved on that one too and signed over consent to search.
Largely these two incidents resulted in me installing recording equipment in the car one touch record on the phone. Both were incidents where I had no witnesses and I wasn't sure if there were dash cams.
All my other incidents in the last 25 years or so - respectful and no problems...
Seems to me we are in a very sad state of affairs when the public has to do things like install recording equipment in cars to protect themselves from the LEO's! I realize the few bad apples ruin the bunch but the bunch is still ruined. Unfortunately, you don't get to pick which LEO you have to deal with on the side of the road when no one is looking. Dash cams and body cameras and microphones should be mandatory on ALL units at ALL times. Should be made to verify working order prior to leaving for patrol or patrol doesn't happen. With all of the technology available today this can't be that difficult to accomplish.
Take that thought and reverse it. It's pretty sad how police work has evolved that I always carry at least one recorder to protect me from false complaints....people love to call up and file false complaints and I can say first hand I pull out the audio and the complaint goes away...
Carzan wrote:Seems to me we are in a very sad state of affairs when the public has to do things like install recording equipment in cars to protect themselves from the LEO's! I realize the few bad apples ruin the bunch but the bunch is still ruined. Unfortunately, you don't get to pick which LEO you have to deal with on the side of the road when no one is looking. Dash cams and body cameras and microphones should be mandatory on ALL units at ALL times. Should be made to verify working order prior to leaving for patrol or patrol doesn't happen. With all of the technology available today this can't be that difficult to accomplish.
Take that thought and reverse it. It's pretty sad how police work has evolved that I always carry at least one recorder to protect me from false complaints....people love to call up and file false complaints and I can say first hand I pull out the audio and the complaint goes away...
You would agree that a false complaint is not nearly as big a deal as a cop violating someone's rights under color of law? These two issues are not comparable from the point of view of person wronged.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -- James Madison
jbarn wrote:
You cannot leave us hanging. What was the result?
texanjoker wrote:
Probably the same nonsense like all the people that have told me they would have my badge......
I caved. If he had a nothing hand and was bluffing, I bought it. I honestly believe he would have towed the car and cost me 12 hours. It's not like Wilco is known for that sort of thing. Sorry to disappoint, Joker...
Talking back or asserting your "rights" one on one against a LEO without a witness or without a recording, it's never going to work out well. I'm idealistic, but not dumb.
I've caved facing an unwarranted search also. There were several bluffs, but the one that I bought was, "we're bringing to dog from Travis county, it make take up to an hour and that dog will be all over your car - including on the hood, the roof, etc". Caved on that one too and signed over consent to search.
Largely these two incidents resulted in me installing recording equipment in the car one touch record on the phone. Both were incidents where I had no witnesses and I wasn't sure if there were dash cams.
All my other incidents in the last 25 years or so - respectful and no problems...
Seems to me we are in a very sad state of affairs when the public has to do things like install recording equipment in cars to protect themselves from the LEO's! I realize the few bad apples ruin the bunch but the bunch is still ruined. Unfortunately, you don't get to pick which LEO you have to deal with on the side of the road when no one is looking. Dash cams and body cameras and microphones should be mandatory on ALL units at ALL times. Should be made to verify working order prior to leaving for patrol or patrol doesn't happen. With all of the technology available today this can't be that difficult to accomplish.
Take that thought and reverse it. It's pretty sad how police work has evolved that I always carry at least one recorder to protect me from false complaints....people love to call up and file false complaints and I can say first hand I pull out the audio and the complaint goes away...
TexanJoker, You make my point, which is that all interactions should be recorded. This would serve to protect both sides! I am quite sure you are correct in stating that people love to file false complaints BUT, so do the cops!
What percentage of the citizens of our country are "bad apples"?
We need to treat one another respectfully and as good people until one gives the other a reason not to. This principle goes both ways. We shouldn't automatically treat cops as "bad apples" and the cops shouldn't treat everyone they encounter as "bad apples".
If the cops believe they need to record encounters with citizens to protect themselves, we shouldn't resent it. Likewise, cops shouldn't resent it when mere citizens believe they need to record interactions with cops to protect themselves.
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.
mojo84 wrote:What percentage of the cops are "bad apples"?
What percentage of the citizens of our country are "bad apples"?
We need to treat one another respectfully and as good people until one gives the other a reason not to. This principle goes both ways. We shouldn't automatically treat cops as "bad apples" and the cops shouldn't treat everyone they encounter as "bad apples".
If the cops believe they need to record encounters with citizens to protect themselves, we shouldn't resent it. Likewise, cops shouldn't resent it when mere citizens believe they need to record interactions with cops to protect themselves.
mojo84 wrote:What percentage of the cops are "bad apples"?
What percentage of the citizens of our country are "bad apples"?
We need to treat one another respectfully and as good people until one gives the other a reason not to. This principle goes both ways. We shouldn't automatically treat cops as "bad apples" and the cops shouldn't treat everyone they encounter as "bad apples".
If the cops believe they need to record encounters with citizens to protect themselves, we shouldn't resent it. Likewise, cops shouldn't resent it when mere citizens believe they need to record interactions with cops to protect themselves.
i haven't been around as long as some but i can say that this is how i handle any meeting with any leo. and IMO is the best blanket statement in how interaction between all civilians. although "the mere civilians" part is the attitude of some that i disagree with. contrary to popular opinion if you aren't in military uniform then you are a civilian. granted leos have privlages and responsibilities that others don't we are ALL bound by the constituion and bill of rights. those documents ARE the supreme law of the land and any law or charges claimed that infringes either is NOT VALID. they used to teach this in highschool and college before this common core non-sense came along.... and as far as an encounter goes it already sets the tone for confrontation, which is usually associated with a negative interaction. and it doesn't have to be....know where the line is but be cordial and trust until given a reason not to!
"Our houses are protected by the Good Lord and a gun, you might em both if you show up here not welcome son" Josh Thompson- Way out here (best song ever) "eventually all citizens will become criminals with enough legislation....."
Jaguar wrote:
You would agree that a false complaint is not nearly as big a deal as a cop violating someone's rights under color of law? These two issues are not comparable from the point of view of person wronged.
Doesn't it depend on the nature of the complaint?
Recordings protect both sides.
LEOs are public servants, and the public has a right to know exactly what they doing every minute that they are being paid.
That being said, anyone who would consent to a search of his car is a fool. There is just no reason to consent. For those of you that say "if you have nothing to hide, why not." Consider this....
- Are you the original owner of your car? Could be that the previous owner forgot to remove some of his "goodies" before selling the car? Remember the case where the kid got busted with pot in the car he had just bought from a police auction?
- Are you the only person that uses the car? I personally know an Orthopedic Surgeon who was busted with weed in his daughters SUV. She is a straight A student, and they are church going folk...he didn't think he had anything to hide.
- Have you ever left your windows down, or is your car a convertible? I once owned a convertible that I left the top down on all the time...well until I found what looked to be leftover seeds/stems in a ziplock behind the back seat. That would have been had to explain.
The more people refuse consent, the more LEOs will get use to the fact that they have to have just cause, and do not have free reign.
LEOs are public servants, and the public has a right to know exactly what they doing every minute that they are being paid.
I do not agree with this and do not think it is practical, possible or wise.
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.
mojo84 wrote:I do not agree with this and do not think it is practical, possible or wise.
Yea, I can think of some reasons where 24/7 surveillance of LEOs would be a problem...
I can't think of any reason why every traffic stop in Texas shouldn't come with audio and video.
I have never met and don't personally know Mr. Anygunanywhere. But I have personal knowledge of harassment and false charges filed against people simply because they didn't comply with the police or were a "hippie" and had long hair.
You cannot leave us hanging. What was the result?
