Selling a Pistol

[JALLEN]

I understand the desire to avoid selling the firearm to the wrong person, however, a bill of sale does not prevent that. Trust your gut... You probably shouldn't sell to the guy with the tear drop tattoo by his eye and 13 tattooed on his neck. In my opinion, asking me to show ID is fine, however if you wish to copy my ID, that is where I draw the line. I will not give my DL # or CHL info to a complete stranger for them to copy for a private transaction. I do not know what you intend to do with that info, nor do I know how you will protect it.

If you are that concerned that you will sell to the wrong person, then either require the transaction to go through an FFL, or sell the firearm on consignment at a shop.

I understand it. When you see my ads, if I decide to sell, don't trouble yourself because I am a "belt and suspenders" type person who will require a bill of sale, ID, CHL and copy them, maybe a letter from your mother and Boy Scout leader, and that only if I get the right vibes. I don't need the money, don't need to sell to anyone, and can be as careful as seems prudent.

Don Corleone taught, "women and children can afford to be careless. But not men."

[Charlies.Contingency]

I understand the desire to avoid selling the firearm to the wrong person, however, a bill of sale does not prevent that. Trust your gut... You probably shouldn't sell to the guy with the tear drop tattoo by his eye and 13 tattooed on his neck. In my opinion, asking me to show ID is fine, however if you wish to copy my ID, that is where I draw the line. I will not give my DL # or CHL info to a complete stranger for them to copy for a private transaction. I do not know what you intend to do with that info, nor do I know how you will protect it.

If you are that concerned that you will sell to the wrong person, then either require the transaction to go through an FFL, or sell the firearm on consignment at a shop.

I understand it. When you see my ads, if I decide to sell, don't trouble yourself because I am a "belt and suspenders" type person who will require a bill of sale, ID, CHL and copy them, maybe a letter from your mother and Boy Scout leader, and that only if I get the right vibes. I don't need the money, don't need to sell to anyone, and can be as careful as seems prudent.

Don Corleone taught, "women and children can afford to be careless. But not men."

Great!

I by no means am FOR GUN CONTROL, but it would seem that my suggesting to you acquiring such information makes me a gun grabber. This is far from the truth. We have the right to do whatever we want. If we want to sell blindly to somebody, that's our risk. If I want to sell a gun to somebody, (did a few years ago), and require DL, CHL, and bill of sale, and take copies of all documentation with written statements from both parties, then that is my deal. If I get a trooper at my door asking me where I was 6 hours ago, because after I sold a gun and somebody robbed a place with it, shot some rounds, and ditched the gun, I am not going to rest easy. A prosecutor may not believe that a person matching my description and wearing a mask robbed a joint, with my gun, that I just happened to sell hours or days prior according to me. Likely story one might think. I'm not for it, so I will always suggest to somebody to cover their rear!

If you want to sell a gun on the corner to somebody, all for you guys, but some of us are a little bit more cautious in these troubling times.

I may have missed it, but what are you selling anyway?

[cyphertext]

I understand the desire to avoid selling the firearm to the wrong person, however, a bill of sale does not prevent that. Trust your gut... You probably shouldn't sell to the guy with the tear drop tattoo by his eye and 13 tattooed on his neck. In my opinion, asking me to show ID is fine, however if you wish to copy my ID, that is where I draw the line. I will not give my DL # or CHL info to a complete stranger for them to copy for a private transaction. I do not know what you intend to do with that info, nor do I know how you will protect it.

If you are that concerned that you will sell to the wrong person, then either require the transaction to go through an FFL, or sell the firearm on consignment at a shop.

I understand it. When you see my ads, if I decide to sell, don't trouble yourself because I am a "belt and suspenders" type person who will require a bill of sale, ID, CHL and copy them, maybe a letter from your mother and Boy Scout leader, and that only if I get the right vibes. I don't need the money, don't need to sell to anyone, and can be as careful as seems prudent.

Don Corleone taught, "women and children can afford to be careless. But not men."

You can do what you want, your gun, your prerogative... But I find it amusing that you complain about the "mother may I" hoops that you had to jump through in California, yet you come to a state where there are few requirements and you want to make the process much more difficult and do more than legally required.

I don't find following the law to be careless. If I meet the requirements of the law, I have done what is required of me... nothing more, nothing less.

As far as your ads, please list your requirements in them so that I, or others who are like minded and simply follow the requirements of the law, will not waste either your time, or ours.

[cyphertext]

I understand the desire to avoid selling the firearm to the wrong person, however, a bill of sale does not prevent that. Trust your gut... You probably shouldn't sell to the guy with the tear drop tattoo by his eye and 13 tattooed on his neck. In my opinion, asking me to show ID is fine, however if you wish to copy my ID, that is where I draw the line. I will not give my DL # or CHL info to a complete stranger for them to copy for a private transaction. I do not know what you intend to do with that info, nor do I know how you will protect it.

If you are that concerned that you will sell to the wrong person, then either require the transaction to go through an FFL, or sell the firearm on consignment at a shop.

I understand it. When you see my ads, if I decide to sell, don't trouble yourself because I am a "belt and suspenders" type person who will require a bill of sale, ID, CHL and copy them, maybe a letter from your mother and Boy Scout leader, and that only if I get the right vibes. I don't need the money, don't need to sell to anyone, and can be as careful as seems prudent.

Don Corleone taught, "women and children can afford to be careless. But not men."

Great!

I by no means am FOR GUN CONTROL, but it would seem that my suggesting to you acquiring such information makes me a gun grabber. This is far from the truth. We have the right to do whatever we want. If we want to sell blindly to somebody, that's our risk. If I want to sell a gun to somebody, (did a few years ago), and require DL, CHL, and bill of sale, and take copies of all documentation with written statements from both parties, then that is my deal. If I get a trooper at my door asking me where I was 6 hours ago, because after I sold a gun and somebody robbed a place with it, shot some rounds, and ditched the gun, I am not going to rest easy. A prosecutor may not believe that a person matching my description and wearing a mask robbed a joint, with my gun, that I just happened to sell hours or days prior according to me. Likely story one might think. I'm not for it, so I will always suggest to somebody to cover their rear!

If you want to sell a gun on the corner to somebody, all for you guys, but some of us are a little bit more cautious in these troubling times.

I may have missed it, but what are you selling anyway?

Do you guys really believe that criminals are looking to buy guns from you at market value? Are they looking to buy that Kimber from you for $1000, or are they more likely to use a stolen gun, or buy a stolen gun?... these CYA scenarios just don't play out.

I know of one person that sold a gun that was later used in a crime... and it was used 2 years later, not 6 hours later. The police came and asked about the firearm, my friend said that he had sold it, they asked if he had a bill of sale or name of who he sold it to... he did not. They thanked him for his time and never heard from them again.

You asked what I am selling... nothing.... I'm a buyer. And when I buy used, I am typically buying used because I prefer a cash transaction with no record. Am I a felon? No. Am I a prohibited individual? No. Do I have a CHL? Yes. Do I think the gov needs to be able to know about every firearm I have purchased? NO. Just as you have a right to ask for all those things, as a buyer I have the right to say no and go somewhere else.

[nyj]

I understand the desire to avoid selling the firearm to the wrong person, however, a bill of sale does not prevent that. Trust your gut... You probably shouldn't sell to the guy with the tear drop tattoo by his eye and 13 tattooed on his neck. In my opinion, asking me to show ID is fine, however if you wish to copy my ID, that is where I draw the line. I will not give my DL # or CHL info to a complete stranger for them to copy for a private transaction. I do not know what you intend to do with that info, nor do I know how you will protect it.

If you are that concerned that you will sell to the wrong person, then either require the transaction to go through an FFL, or sell the firearm on consignment at a shop.

I understand it. When you see my ads, if I decide to sell, don't trouble yourself because I am a "belt and suspenders" type person who will require a bill of sale, ID, CHL and copy them, maybe a letter from your mother and Boy Scout leader, and that only if I get the right vibes. I don't need the money, don't need to sell to anyone, and can be as careful as seems prudent.

Don Corleone taught, "women and children can afford to be careless. But not men."

You can do what you want, your gun, your prerogative... But I find it amusing that you complain about the "mother may I" hoops that you had to jump through in California, yet you come to a state where there are few requirements and you want to make the process much more difficult and do more than legally required.

I don't find following the law to be careless. If I meet the requirements of the law, I have done what is required of me... nothing more, nothing less.

As far as your ads, please list your requirements in them so that I, or others who are like minded and simply follow the requirements of the law, will not waste either your time, or ours.

Agreed.

I have bought and sold probably 20 or more pistols & rifles in the last 2 years, and have only had one person ask me to do a bill of sale. I have never encountered anyone I felt was 'sketchy' in person -- those people you can pretty much weed out by the way they either type or talk on the phone (sorry to profile, but...). I did have an 18y/o try to buy a pistol from me -- which was completely legal, but he was taking walking/taking the bus home and that's not so legal. We live in a gun friendly state and the used market is very easy to deal with. While I have a CHL and have nothing to hide from, I hardly care to fill out a bill of sale, have someone take copies of my licenses, etc.

[Charlies.Contingency]

Do you guys really believe that criminals are looking to buy guns from you at market value?
Why yes, yes I do. Do you know what a criminal is? Are you a criminal before you commit the crime, or after? Don't try to tell somebody in law enforcement that "criminals" don't buy nice guns or guns at market value.

Are they looking to buy that Kimber from you for $1000, or are they more likely to use a stolen gun, or buy a stolen gun?...

Do you have anything factual to say? Who are you to know what I own and sell? Nobody. You categorize all criminals as if they act and do the same, please bring to the table something debatable.

these CYA scenarios just don't play out.

According to who? Oh yes, according to "cyphertext" they don't play out. Just because you've never seen an illegal cross the border, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Please, you're talking to somebody that's been there, it has happened. Just because your circle of friends don't have any experiences with it, doesn't mean it "doesn't play out."

I know of one person that sold a gun that was later used in a crime...

I've meet dozens... unfortunately they did not cover themselves.

You asked what I am selling... nothing.... I'm a buyer.

I quoted the OP, and it was directed towards him.

Just as you have a right to ask for all those things, as a buyer I have the right to say no and go somewhere else.

Don't worry, I'm quite certain I wouldn't buy from you anyway. You have your rights, and I have mine. Because I choose to make sure I protect myself legally and physically, means just that. It has nothing to do with your rights what I do, nor do I want to impose restrictions and gun grabbing laws. That would be ridiculous, but not everything works out as it should. Just because you're not "breaking the law," doesn't mean you can't go to jail or be convicted of something stupid. A lot of innocent people have been put behind bars, and I don't intend to be one of those, which is why I cover my rear.

[JALLEN]

You can do what you want, your gun, your prerogative... But I find it amusing that you complain about the "mother may I" hoops that you had to jump through in California, yet you come to a state where there are few requirements and you want to make the process much more difficult and do more than legally required.

I don't find following the law to be careless. If I meet the requirements of the law, I have done what is required of me... nothing more, nothing less.

As far as your ads, please list your requirements in them so that I, or others who are like minded and simply follow the requirements of the law, will not waste either your time, or ours.

No need to be amused. I am a Native Texan, coming home after decades in a strange and foreign land. The "Mother May I" hoops I endured are imposed by the state, much more onerous that prudence and care require.

Following the bare requirements of law may or not be careless. The legislative process doesn't seem well suited to achieve such lofty ambition. Legislators propose things, others oppose, they count noses, measure re-election affects, come to some compromise and that is agreed upon, often whether it makes any sense or not. California is far worse, being a socialist hellhole like it is.

[cyphertext]

Do you guys really believe that criminals are looking to buy guns from you at market value?
Why yes, yes I do. Do you know what a criminal is? Are you a criminal before you commit the crime, or after? Don't try to tell somebody in law enforcement that "criminals" don't buy nice guns or guns at market value.

Are they looking to buy that Kimber from you for $1000, or are they more likely to use a stolen gun, or buy a stolen gun?...

Do you have anything factual to say? Who are you to know what I own and sell? Nobody. You categorize all criminals as if they act and do the same, please bring to the table something debatable.

these CYA scenarios just don't play out.

According to who? Oh yes, according to "cyphertext" they don't play out. Just because you've never seen an illegal cross the border, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Please, you're talking to somebody that's been there, it has happened. Just because your circle of friends don't have any experiences with it, doesn't mean it "doesn't play out."

I know of one person that sold a gun that was later used in a crime...

I've meet dozens... unfortunately they did not cover themselves.

You asked what I am selling... nothing.... I'm a buyer.

I quoted the OP, and it was directed towards him.

Just as you have a right to ask for all those things, as a buyer I have the right to say no and go somewhere else.

Don't worry, I'm quite certain I wouldn't buy from you anyway. You have your rights, and I have mine. Because I choose to make sure I protect myself legally and physically, means just that. It has nothing to do with your rights what I do, nor do I want to impose restrictions and gun grabbing laws. That would be ridiculous, but not everything works out as it should. Just because you're not "breaking the law," doesn't mean you can't go to jail or be convicted of something stupid. A lot of innocent people have been put behind bars, and I don't intend to be one of those, which is why I cover my rear.

Again, whatever you want to do, it is your prerogative as the seller... it is my prerogative as the buyer to walk away from the deal and not give you my money if you are imposing more requirements than what is legally required by law. If you are making a record, linking the purchaser to the firearm, it is a de facto registry. And if you don't meet the requirement of not knowingly transferring to a prohibited person, the bill of sale is not going to help you anyway... to use the Julio the gang banger example, if you sell the gun to Julio, complete with tattoos and all, and he goes out and murders someone with the gun... do you think the bill of sale is going to get you off the hook? Or is the prosecutor going to think that you should have known not to sell to Julio? If you follow the requirements of the law, you are covered.

[JALLEN]

Now that the media is reporting this murder suspect in Houston had a mental health record, it is going to be important where he got the .40 s&w pistol.

I think the reason I am inclined to be strict about who I sell to is because 40 years of lawyering has left me cynical, suspicious and mistrustful of my fellow man in these important matters. Also, when I had that pistol stolen, I was berated rather severely by some SEALs I was pals with at the time. I had no idea how the gun was stolen, although it must have been while I unloaded my gun safe to move everything into the garage while the flooring in the study was replaced. Their attitude, to my dismay, was that if I was that irresponsible, I shouldn't even own guns. To them, responsibility extends to knowing where and what condition each gun you own is in at all times, no excuses. Somehow, I had not paid sufficient attention to that to insure each firearm was in the relocated safe.

It is necessary to meet legal requirements, of course, but it is also necessary to meet higher standards of care to avoid having things like the Houston incident happen.

[puma guy]

Now that the media is reporting this murder suspect in Houston had a mental health record, it is going to be important where he got the .40 s&w pistol.

I think the reason I am inclined to be strict about who I sell to is because 40 years of lawyering has left me cynical, suspicious and mistrustful of my fellow man in these important matters. Also, when I had that pistol stolen, I was berated rather severely by some SEALs I was pals with at the time. I had no idea how the gun was stolen, although it must have been while I unloaded my gun safe to move everything into the garage while the flooring in the study was replaced. Their attitude, to my dismay, was that if I was that irresponsible, I shouldn't even own guns. To them, responsibility extends to knowing where and what condition each gun you own is in at all times, no excuses. Somehow, I had not paid sufficient attention to that to insure each firearm was in the relocated safe.

It is necessary to meet legal requirements, of course, but it is also necessary to meet higher standards of care to avoid having things like the Houston incident happen.

Wow! I am amazed at the reactions and responses your post provoked. Apparently some of the comments were removed because I saw a condescending remark quoted that I could not find in any of the posts. Good luck with your sale whether you post it on this forum or not.

As for any focus on where the shooter got the weapon I will offer we'll only hear about it if it fits the anti-gun/back ground check narrative; if it's a stolen weapon we'll never hear it.

[K.Mooneyham]

Now that the media is reporting this murder suspect in Houston had a mental health record, it is going to be important where he got the .40 s&w pistol.

I think the reason I am inclined to be strict about who I sell to is because 40 years of lawyering has left me cynical, suspicious and mistrustful of my fellow man in these important matters. Also, when I had that pistol stolen, I was berated rather severely by some SEALs I was pals with at the time. I had no idea how the gun was stolen, although it must have been while I unloaded my gun safe to move everything into the garage while the flooring in the study was replaced. Their attitude, to my dismay, was that if I was that irresponsible, I shouldn't even own guns. To them, responsibility extends to knowing where and what condition each gun you own is in at all times, no excuses. Somehow, I had not paid sufficient attention to that to insure each firearm was in the relocated safe.

It is necessary to meet legal requirements, of course, but it is also necessary to meet higher standards of care to avoid having things like the Houston incident happen.

I guess I'm an untrusting, cynical individual as well. You spent a lot longer in California than I did, and I was only there due to the Air Force stationing me there. However, and this is nothing personal against anyone on here, but it is my sincere belief that a DA's job is to get convictions. And for some DA's, they wouldn't much care if it was a gangbanger, or you, or a 100-year old lady with a walker, as long as they can get the jury to buy the evidence. So, cries of "gun control lover" aside, I would still want to see a CHL and have a signature on a bill-of-sale. Because as the current POTUS and so many other "fine" politicians have shown us, it doesn't matter how a law is written, but how it can be twisted and interpreted that matters.

[b322da]

I'm thinking of selling one or two pistols. I've never sold one, and have yet to buy one since moving to Texas.

What are the requirements, do's and don'ts, the "smart" tips to avoid selling to Julio the gangbanger or Ahmed the terrorist, wannabe, and other undesirables, if you get my drift?

Jim,

I was first tempted to advise that you not sell a firearm to a man (or a woman, I would suppose) with a beard, then I realized that today that would probably eliminate 2/3 or more of your legitimate market.

Jim

[RPBrown]

As you can see, there are many different ways to sell a gun in Texas. Most of which have been covered. Also, as you can see, there are just as many opinions on how people will sell or buy a gun. There is what is legal, what is prudent and what is cautious. How you choose to sell or buy is now left up to you. Only you can make the decisions on what to do.

[JALLEN]

I guess I'm an untrusting, cynical individual as well. You spent a lot longer in California than I did, and I was only there due to the Air Force stationing me there. However, and this is nothing personal against anyone on here, but it is my sincere belief that a DA's job is to get convictions. And for some DA's, they wouldn't much care if it was a gangbanger, or you, or a 100-year old lady with a walker, as long as they can get the jury to buy the evidence. So, cries of "gun control lover" aside, I would still want to see a CHL and have a signature on a bill-of-sale. Because as the current POTUS and so many other "fine" politicians have shown us, it doesn't matter how a law is written, but how it can be twisted and interpreted that matters.

You are right that the prosecutor's job is to get convictions, when they have the evidence that a crime has been committed and the person accused committed it, easy enough to say and sometimes very hard to tell exactly how to interpret the evidence and the law. Sometimes those standards are muddled by firmly held political views, and no one is immune from error of one sort or another.

In the context of this discussion, though, prosecution is not really an issue for the most part. You certainly want to comply with the requirements of law, of course, but there is a responsibility (which is the other side of the coin of "rights") to prevent firearms from falling into irresponsible hands, children for example.

If I had casually sold, no questions asked, a .40 pistol with 15 round magazines to a young black man in Houston recently, I would be very unhappy these days.

[Charlies.Contingency]

Do you guys really believe that criminals are looking to buy guns from you at market value?
Why yes, yes I do. Do you know what a criminal is? Are you a criminal before you commit the crime, or after? Don't try to tell somebody in law enforcement that "criminals" don't buy nice guns or guns at market value.

Are they looking to buy that Kimber from you for $1000, or are they more likely to use a stolen gun, or buy a stolen gun?...

Do you have anything factual to say? Who are you to know what I own and sell? Nobody. You categorize all criminals as if they act and do the same, please bring to the table something debatable.

these CYA scenarios just don't play out.

According to who? Oh yes, according to "cyphertext" they don't play out. Just because you've never seen an illegal cross the border, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Please, you're talking to somebody that's been there, it has happened. Just because your circle of friends don't have any experiences with it, doesn't mean it "doesn't play out."

I know of one person that sold a gun that was later used in a crime...

I've meet dozens... unfortunately they did not cover themselves.

You asked what I am selling... nothing.... I'm a buyer.

I quoted the OP, and it was directed towards him.

Just as you have a right to ask for all those things, as a buyer I have the right to say no and go somewhere else.

Don't worry, I'm quite certain I wouldn't buy from you anyway. You have your rights, and I have mine. Because I choose to make sure I protect myself legally and physically, means just that. It has nothing to do with your rights what I do, nor do I want to impose restrictions and gun grabbing laws. That would be ridiculous, but not everything works out as it should. Just because you're not "breaking the law," doesn't mean you can't go to jail or be convicted of something stupid. A lot of innocent people have been put behind bars, and I don't intend to be one of those, which is why I cover my rear.

Again, whatever you want to do, it is your prerogative as the seller... it is my prerogative as the buyer to walk away from the deal and not give you my money if you are imposing more requirements than what is legally required by law. If you are making a record, linking the purchaser to the firearm, it is a de facto registry. And if you don't meet the requirement of not knowingly transferring to a prohibited person, the bill of sale is not going to help you anyway... to use the Julio the gang banger example, if you sell the gun to Julio, complete with tattoos and all, and he goes out and murders someone with the gun... do you think the bill of sale is going to get you off the hook? Or is the prosecutor going to think that you should have known not to sell to Julio? If you follow the requirements of the law, you are covered.

Do you even think your statements through? Just moseying on according to the law is not sufficient IMO. You accuse me of starting my own gun registration? You are nuts. I have documented every one of my guns, and if I ever sold it, and to whom. Where does this make me a gun grabbin communist like you would like to say I am? Did I ask people questions and such when I adopted out some puppies, yes I did. Oh wait, does that make me a doggy control advocate? I bette not talk about selling a truck, Next thing you know people might be calling me a racist or something else crazy

I'm done trying to argue this with you. You have no case, and you bring nothing tothe table in a debate. Whenever you figure out that our laws aren't perfect and don't always protect you, let me know. A person in a fantasy and one in reality cannot debate. Have a great day.