AZ: Marine killed in misdirected SWAT raid

[jmorris]

Buddy of mine is a SWAT sniper for a local large city....when they have intel that indicates that the front door is hardened or has a man-trap or similar device (many are drug houses, man traps are apparently quite common) they will just pull down the wall. Most of the target houses have wood walls...a ram/grappelling/breaching device goes through the wall (with a line on it) and then it (and the wall) gets pulled out/away (line is attached to a vehicle) and the team goes in. My buddy also fabricates some of these devices used to breach/tear down the walls.

Reminds me of an episode of "Burn Notice". Guy Michael is after is living in a warehouse type building and has reinforced the door to make it bullet proof. Michael yells to him, he comes to door and yells back, and Michael shoots three times through the wall beside the door. Which is where the bad guy is standing of course.

[Dave2]

I doubt anyone could harden a home to keep out marines but, do you really think you could harden your house to keep Swat out?

I don't know, I haven't put that much thought into it. With that in mind, I bet the design requirements for hardening your house to keep tornadoes out would be similar, and phrasing it that way might help you get around whatever Jim is talking about:

The building permit process in most places would prohibit building a bunker.

[philip964]

I saw one those above ground tornado shelters on TV. Big steel box. Sells for about $4000. That might work. Cell phone wouldnt work inside, so BG might just wait you out.

[Dave2]

I saw one those above ground tornado shelters on TV. Big steel box. Sells for about $4000. That might work. Cell phone wouldnt work inside, so BG might just wait you out.

My roommate was thinking about burying one of those under the porch. Well, probably not one of those exactly, since you're talking about an above-ground box and he was talking about an underground box, but it's the same-ish sort of thing.

[flintknapper]

I saw one those above ground tornado shelters on TV. Big steel box. Sells for about $4000. That might work. Cell phone wouldnt work inside, so BG might just wait you out.

Smart BG would recognize the thing is "vented" and smoke you out.

[VoiceofReason]

The search warrant, probable-cause affidavit, and other documents related to this case were unsealed yesterday.

According to news reports, the brother of the deceased José Guerena was one target of a long-running drug investigation. José had been with other targets of the investigation in vehicles that police stopped and "seen" at a house that they frequented.

A group of nine people mentioned in the affidavit supposedly own 32 cars among them, worth more than $344 thousand dollars.

Also, according to this report, José was hit 22 times out of 71 shots (more typical for this type of incident). Earlier reports said he was hit 60 times.

There is quite a bit of circumstantial evidence such as "Guerena was stopped in a truck that had a large roll of the plastic wrap often used to package drug loads like this one."

http://www.kgun9.com/story/14831993/war ... -drug-ring" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.kold.com/story/14831922/fami ... estigation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.kvoa.com/news/newly-released ... e-guerena/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

Doesn’t sound like these folks were doing too well in the drug business. They had a whole bunch of older cars and José had to work in a mine. They tallied up the blue book value of all of the cars. I wonder how they got the mileage? That figures into the blue book value doesn’t it?

I have a couple of rolls of plastic wrap. One was left by the movers and I bought one which is actually plastic “drop cloth”. I put it over my furniture before hurricane Ike in case the roof got damaged and leaked. I don’t know how much marijuana it would wrap. Never really thought about it. This plastic wrap is also used to wrap items on pallets for shipping.

Still can’t understand if José had a criminal record or not. Conflicting accounts. As a matter of fact sounds like the warrent was based on a whole lot of speculation and very little fact.

Any way you look at it, I still think this was a bad shoot. Swat is going in. Someone has a gun, don’t back down “hit him”. This is war and he is the enemy.

[seamusTX]

Doesn’t sound like these folks were doing too well in the drug business. They had a whole bunch of older cars and José had to work in a mine. They tallied up the blue book value of all of the cars. I wonder how they got the mileage? That figures into the blue book value doesn’t it?

Low- and mid-level drug dealers (not that I'm saying anyone involved is a drug dealer) actually don't make much money in the long term. They tend to get a big slug of profit every now and then that they spend on bling and splurges, but their net income is barely poverty-level.

Sometimes their honest jobs are cover or a base for contacts. A lot of workplaces have a known "go to guy."

The mileage is recorded every time a car is sold, which for some used cars is frequently. I guess the state keeps it in a database. If you pull a Carfax report, it will have the mileage, every time the vehicle was inspected, and some other details that might surprise you.

- Jim

[tomneal]

About a year ago, I read an article about inner city drug dealers. It had a catchy title something like: If drug dealing is so profitable, why do dealers still live with their mothers.

On the other hand
Why do we have SWAT execute warrants?

I can understand cases of Kidnapping, or making weapons of mass destruction but I don't understand why serving a regular warrant with dynamic entry is good for American society.

Maybe I've lead too sheltered a life
or
I am too much of an optimist.

[carlson1]

Why do we have SWAT execute warrants?

SWAT is over used so the City, County, State, etc. . . can justify the money they receive from the Federal grants.

[seamusTX]

About a year ago, I read an article about inner city drug dealers. It had a catchy title something like: If drug dealing is so profitable, why do dealers still live with their mothers.

That's from economist Steven D. Levitt, co-author of Freakonomics.

- Jim

[flintknapper]

Why do we have SWAT execute warrants?

SWAT is over used so the City, County, State, etc. . . can justify the money they receive from the Federal grants.

Maybe they feel as if they HAVE to put all that training to use somewhere.

Sort of "All dressed up and nowhere to go" otherwise.

[philip964]

[/quote] Sort of "All dressed up and nowhere to go" otherwise. [/quote]

I am finding that government workers do not wish to be not busy, otherwise they will be laid off. So there is a lot of make work going on right now.

[Bullwhip]

Maybe they feel as if they HAVE to put all that training to use somewhere.

Sort of "All dressed up and nowhere to go" otherwise.

"If you have a hammer every problem is a nail."

[gigag04]

Swat doesn't serve all warrants. Most warrants are served by regular uniformed LE. To bring in swat, most depts have a threat matrix that the brass will run through and apply to the individual case before activating.

[speedsix]

...it makes no difference to me who executes warrants, as long as they do their homework first...I've served warrants on drug dealers known to be armed where we got in with a master key and the first time the perps knew we were there, we woke them up with a pistol tapping their foreheads...and them in the bed asleep...mine had a Python under his pillow(shows you how long ago it was)...noone got a scratch and no damage to property...but then there was the time we surrounded the home of an armed robber for 3 hours...ended up firing tear gas into the house...and burning the house down...noone home...
...they need to be sure of their facts, address, etc...they need to know if there're kids in the house, they need to decide if Gangbusters is really necessary or could they catch him as he leaves...but sometimes, careful as can be doesn't insure that things won't go wrong...stuff happens...long as they do their job well beforehand...we oughta understand that...