Vandalism, looting in Missouri after Officer Shooting

[stroo]

A 6 foot four, 300 pound man trying to take your gun away would justify use of lethal force by a police officer. As to whether it was justified after they got out of the car, let's wait on the forensics.

As to the release of the videotape of the assailant robbing the video store, it may explain why he attacked the police officer. So it really is relevant.

[b322da]

... BTW there is a picture of the thug with a wad of cash in his mouth and a pistol pointing at the camera.

Be this true or false, without perhaps further evidence such as that the officer had seen this photo and recognized the decedent as being the same person, this photo has no bearing whatsoever on the issue of whether or not the officer had, under the circumstances, the right to use the lethal force he used. Speculation piled upon speculation.

As I suggested earlier, the release of an irrelevant photo like this can be aimed only at enflaming the attitude of the public. In fact, it is quite likely that the release of the convenience store video by the chief of police led directly to more violence, even after a quiet period as a result of a different approach to law enforcement.

It could be argued, and indeed it has been argued, that publicizing a photo like this also goes to further an argument that Brown's prior acts legally justified his execution regardless of what was happening on-scene, just exactly what some felt about the release of the robbery video, which led to more violence.

I must admit that my vision of cases like this is somewhat limited by considering what I would permit a jury to see should I be unfortunate enough to be the trial judge in such a case. Things which I believe would be kept from a jury have received wide publication by those on both sides. This brings up an interesting question about the likelihood of a change of venue in the unlikely event that such a trial might transpire.

I am not taking either side here. I am only soliciting fairness to both sides. Or, if you will, patience....

Jim

[b322da]

... As to the release of the videotape of the assailant robbing the video store, it may explain why he attacked the police officer. So it really is relevant.

If in fact the decedent did attack the police officer, a fact very much in question at this moment, this would not be a bad legal argument, but in my personal opinion the light it would shed would be overcome by the smoke it emits.

Jim

[Jim Beaux]

SNIP

... BTW there is a picture of the thug with a wad of cash in his mouth and a pistol pointing at the camera.

an irrelevant photo

The reference to the photo of the thug with a gun was relevant to this thread.

Jim Beaux wrote:We do know that the robber had access to a gun


How do we know this? I've seen no reports of that.

[rotor]

One other thing is that Brown knew that he had just commited a crime, he did not know that the police officer that was there probably did not know that a recent robbery took place ( at least we are told that). I could understand that Brown would think that the police officer that stopped him was there to arrest him and that could explain his aggression to the officer. As I said, Brown was not out there just for a stroll- he had just commited a crime, a police officer drove up and Brown did what??? and ended up being shot. If store owner had shot Brown I would asume that it would be a legal shoot. At the same time or close to it 2 black men killed a rabbi in Florida. They declare that this was not a race crime and there are no Al Sharptons in Florida to take the side of the rabbi. Numerous synagogue damages and Hammas sprayed on walls but not a hate crime. The rabbi was white and therefore of no consequence. But that's a different issue.

[Excaliber]

Over the last few days the police response went from over the top militaristic tactics to what appeared to be a levelheaded engagement with the community that led to an immediate de-escalation.

Unfortunately when demonstrators turned to rioters and began looting stores last night, police commanders ordered their line officers to withdraw. They made no attempt to stop the depradations or arrest those involved.

I wasn't there, but if the news reports and statements from storeowners are anywhere near correct, from here it sure looks like command sanctioned dereliction of duty. Instead of protecting the innocent, they've now protected and enabled the guilty. Storeowners who didn't want to be victimized had to arm themselves and be their own deterrent force to keep their businesses intact.

From one extreme to the other, the police in Ferguson just don't seem to be able to get it right for more than a few hours. Of course, who's in charge seems to change every few hours also. This latest twist has all the marks of too much political influence on what should be on the scene tactical decision making by commanders who have long experience in dealing with such things successfully.

[baldeagle]

The officer has now supposedly spoken through a friend - http://instigatornews.com/friend-office ... ike-brown/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If his story is correct, then the shooting would appear to be justified. I certainly hope there is video of the shooting.

[philip964]

Wow the NPR radio report sounded like Martin/Zimmerman all over again, only wth rioting.

I hope there is video, or the police officer has some visible injuries.

[Charles L. Cotton]

It is my understanding that the video of the strong-arm robbery was released in response to a Missouri version of our Open Records Act Request. If so, it wasn't a tactical move by the PD.

I don't know Missouri law, but in Texas, that video would be admissible in any trial of the officer. It is relevant to who was the initial aggressor. In Texas, even past criminal history of violence by the dead guy is admissible when one of the issues is "who was the aggressor?"

Chas.

[philip964]

First sentence of Boston Globe story on line this evening:

"Developments so far as unrest continues in ‪#‎Ferguson‬ over the fatal shooting of ‪#‎MikeBrown‬, an unarmed black teen, by a white police officer:"

It goes on to talk about a protest march in Boston today over the shooting.

There is also supposed to be one in Houston as well. Same thing happened in the Martin/Zimmerman shooting.

In the Martin/Zimmerman shooting, replace police officer with neighborhood watch captain in the Globe sentence above.

From what I have heard there was a struggle inside the police car and the suspect attempted to grab the officer's gun. Did I miss something?

[baldeagle]

Here's a video that may support the cop's story (which I posted earlier) Warning: Lots of foul language.
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=VdL9dqkyjhM[/youtube]
About the 6:20 mark you can hear two guys talking. One asks what happened. The other says he saw them fighting at the car and then Mike Brown ran. The guy then asks well how did he end up facing this way. The other guy said, I was watching him running, and the next thing I know he's running back toward the officer. That's at about the 6:56 mark. He then repeats it about 10 or 20 seconds later. He ran toward the police.

That appears to corroborate the officer's account of what happened. If true, the shooting should be judged justified, in my opinion. The eyewitnesses who claim he had his hands in the air should be questioned about whether or not he was running back toward the officer with his hands in the air. Hopefully all of this will get sorted out by the investigation.

[mojo84]

I heard Mike Brown was "just an 18 year old unarmed child".

[suthdj]

Now lets say it was a justified shoot and no charges are brought against the LEO. What do you think will happen next? Remember Rodney King. This is a no win situation the dodo will hit the fan.

[Jim Beaux]

Fog seems to be clearing a bit -

The original video poster appears sympathetic to the narrative that Mike Brown was shot unarmed with his hands in the air. But he unknowingly picks up conversation between a man who saw the altercation and another neighbor.

An approximate transcription of the background conversation, as related by the “Conservative Treehouse” blog:
@6:28/6:29 of video
#1 How’d he get from there to there?
#2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck
{crosstalk}
#2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him
{crosstalk}
#2 Then the next thing I know he doubled back toward him cus - the police had his gun drawn already on him –
#1. Oh, the police got his gun
#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him
{crosstalk}
#2 Police fired shots – the next thing I know – the police was missing
#1 The Police?
#2 The Police shot him
#1 Police?
#2 The next thing I know … I’m thinking … the dude started running … (garbled something about “he took it from him”)

This is terribly important because if Mike Brown had been shot, and he advanced towards the cop instead of surrendering, it would substantiate the narrative that the policeman shot in self-defense due to the fact that he was being threatened with severe bodily harm.

This corroborates an account of the event given by a friend of Officer Darren Wilson:

Well, then Michael takes off and gets to be about 35 feet away. And, Darren’s first protocol is to pursue. So, he stands up and yells, “Freeze!” Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him… And then all the sudden he just started bumrushing him. He just started coming at him full speed. And, so he just started shooting. And, he just kept coming. And, so he really thinks he was on something.”

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698- ... -shooting/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[stroo]

Holder is ordering a second autopsy. Guess the first one didn't come out right.

We still don't know enough but to me this is looking more and more like a justified shooting. Have to wait and see though.

Even if it was justified, I wouldn't want this officer's life. He is going to be persecuted and isolated.