Selling a Pistol

[Taypo]

Kinda like isn't it?

[Charlies.Contingency]

I guess I'm an untrusting, cynical individual as well. You spent a lot longer in California than I did, and I was only there due to the Air Force stationing me there. However, and this is nothing personal against anyone on here, but it is my sincere belief that a DA's job is to get convictions. And for some DA's, they wouldn't much care if it was a gangbanger, or you, or a 100-year old lady with a walker, as long as they can get the jury to buy the evidence. So, cries of "gun control lover" aside, I would still want to see a CHL and have a signature on a bill-of-sale. Because as the current POTUS and so many other "fine" politicians have shown us, it doesn't matter how a law is written, but how it can be twisted and interpreted that matters.

You are right that the prosecutor's job is to get convictions, when they have the evidence that a crime has been committed and the person accused committed it, easy enough to say and sometimes very hard to tell exactly how to interpret the evidence and the law. Sometimes those standards are muddled by firmly held political views, and no one is immune from error of one sort or another.

In the context of this discussion, though, prosecution is not really an issue for the most part. You certainly want to comply with the requirements of law, of course, but there is a responsibility (which is the other side of the coin of "rights") to prevent firearms from falling into irresponsible hands, children for example.

If I had casually sold, no questions asked, a .40 pistol with 15 round magazines to a young black man in Houston recently, I would be very unhappy these days.

I wouldn't want to be in those shoes either.

[MechAg94]

I have sold a few and bought a few guns privately. I think I did a bill of sale once. It was just hand written with a signature though. I have shown people my CHL just to assure them I am not prohibitied. At least one guy wrote down my name. That was all fine with me.

If you want stuff like a notary public or more paperwork, you might as well just pay to transfer through a dealer or buy from dealers.

[stroo]

I don't think this has been brought up yet. I always try to conduct the transaction in a public place where other people are around just in case something goes wrong. That can be kind of tricky but you can generally find a place in a parking lot where people are not on top of you and yet are close enough to call for help if something happens.

I haven't done this yet but in north Dallas County, the Carrollton police department has just made their parking lot available to people conducting the transfer of a gun. They recognize apparently the potential dangers when you are dealing with someone you don't know.

I also do my own "background check" to see if I can determine who I am dealing with. Mainly I just google or otherwise search for their name. Most of the time I find something but sometimes I don't.

As someone else said, selling a gun on this forum is about as safe as it gets.

[puma guy]

I don't think this has been brought up yet. I always try to conduct the transaction in a public place where other people are around just in case something goes wrong. That can be kind of tricky but you can generally find a place in a parking lot where people are on top of you and yet are close enough to call for help if something happens.

I haven't done this yet but in north Dallas County, the Carrollton police department has just made their parking lot available to people conducting the transfer of a gun. They recognize apparently the potential dangers when you are dealing with someone you don't know.

I also do my own "background check" to see if I can determine who I am dealing with. Mainly I just google or otherwise search for their name. Most of the time I find something but sometimes I don't.

As someone else said, selling a gun on this forum is about as safe as it gets.

Baytown Texas has a safe exchange location in their parking lot also.

[rentz]

I don't think this has been brought up yet. I always try to conduct the transaction in a public place where other people are around just in case something goes wrong. That can be kind of tricky but you can generally find a place in a parking lot where people are on top of you and yet are close enough to call for help if something happens.

I haven't done this yet but in north Dallas County, the Carrollton police department has just made their parking lot available to people conducting the transfer of a gun. They recognize apparently the potential dangers when you are dealing with someone you don't know.

I also do my own "background check" to see if I can determine who I am dealing with. Mainly I just google or otherwise search for their name. Most of the time I find something but sometimes I don't.

As someone else said, selling a gun on this forum is about as safe as it gets.

Yup I always do a public place , usually in an academy , cabelas or bass pro parking lot so I won't have people screaming gun if they see one.
Saw the Carrollton pd thing a few months ago, they welcomed it for any online sales and said firearms were fine which wasn't surprising since the chief is very firearms friendly.


To the op, as you see everyone does things different. Make sure to follow the laws and do whatever you feel necessary on top.

Myself I've sold a few things mostly via this forum or one other one and all times except 1 the person had a chl and was more than willing to show it to me. The other time the person didn't have a chl but I talked to them and they more than met the requirements and then some . I am always up front about preferring chl and must be willing to show it, I however do NOT record any information.

At first I wanted to do bill of sale until I did some reading on how it can actually be more harm for you than good, one case that was used as an example was a gentleman who had records of all sales he made and the batfe then said he was selling without a license .

Bottom line is that both the buyer and seller are comfortable with the transaction and everyone is legal

[JALLEN]

At first I wanted to do bill of sale until I did some reading on how it can actually be more harm for you than good, one case that was used as an example was a gentleman who had records of all sales he made and the batfe then said he was selling without a license .

Bottom line is that both the buyer and seller are comfortable with the transaction and everyone is legal

These are good things to think about ahead of time.

I've never sold one of my guns, even in the PRC, and do not plan to sell enough to trip the BATFE into thinking I'm a dealer.

[Scott B.]

FYI: The NICS liaison sent an email just this morning informing FFLs that we now have a new 'Private Sale' transfer option for phone and e-check background checks.

They've been encouraging FFLs to offer this service since 2013. I'm sure they'd like to see the rest of the country follow the left coast and make it mandatory.

I don't think it should be mandatory, but I understand the comfort it can provide the seller.

[Taypo]

FYI: The NICS liaison sent an email just this morning informing FFLs that we now have a new 'Private Sale' transfer option for phone and e-check background checks.

They've been encouraging FFLs to offer this service since 2013. I'm sure they'd like to see the rest of the country follow the left coast and make it mandatory.

I don't think it should be mandatory, but I understand the comfort it can provide the seller.

That's an awesome option - do they give any kind of time frame on the email check?

[Scott B.]

Looks like the option doesn't go live until Sept 16th.

If you're an FFL, the e-check system beats the phone, at least in my experience. Can't really multitask while on the phone. Plus if you have delays, checking their status on the computer is super easy.

[SA_Steve]

No one makes a copy of my ID, unless I'm at a car dealer test driving or employer. Or buying decongestant at the pharmacy, or other good reason.

Bill of Sale is OK, I've found it is a rare seller who wants one. Notary, no, that's silly.

As to things I like to do: buy/sell with folks on a local forum after a quick review of their posts to see how crazy they are.
Keep a print out of the back and forth messages before the sale.

Reminds me, I have some revolvers to sell. Dang things multiply when I'm not looking.

[rentz]

No one makes a copy of my ID, unless I'm at a car dealer test driving or employer. Or buying decongestant at the pharmacy, or other good reason.

Bill of Sale is OK, I've found it is a rare seller who wants one. Notary, no, that's silly.

As to things I like to do: buy/sell with folks on a local forum after a quick review of their posts to see how crazy they are.
Keep a print out of the back and forth messages before the sale.

Reminds me, I have some revolvers to sell. Dang things multiply when I'm not looking.

storing the messages is a good idea....i kept all the txt msgs from people i sold to and lost them all when my phone upgraded. Also lost PM's from another site when they updated their site.

[SA_Steve]

I print them out and drop it in the firearms file which holds all my serial numbers, passwords to the encrypted cloud pictures of them with their s/n's showing and old documents from my kitchen table FFL days.

[cyphertext]

Do you even think your statements through? Just moseying on according to the law is not sufficient IMO.

Ummm, did you think this through?... So, if the speed limit is 45 mph, do you drive 40 because "moseying on according to the law is not sufficient"?

You accuse me of starting my own gun registration?

I didn't accuse you of anything, however, by your own admission, you have a de facto gun registration...

I have documented every one of my guns, and if I ever sold it, and to whom.

Any paper record that links the firearm to a buyer is a de facto registration. Why do you want all that info? So that you can point the police or gov on down the road if they come knocking on your door.... Same reason that the form 4473 was created by the 1968 Gun Control Act. Prior to that, there was no paperwork required... you could have firearms delivered to your door through mail order catalogs.

Where does this make me a gun grabbin communist like you would like to say I am?

You may not grab them yourself, but I am a firm believer that the purpose for registration is confiscation... and again, you have all the notes handy to send the police or gov on down the way if confiscation were to ever happen.

Did I ask people questions and such when I adopted out some puppies, yes I did. Oh wait, does that make me a doggy control advocate?

No, but now I understand you more. The dog "rescue" type people that I have interacted with are quite strange... claiming the dogs "need a good home" yet they have a lengthy adoption process, home visits, and other hoops to jump through... That is nuttier than squirrel poop too, but a topic for a different thread.

I bette not talk about selling a truck, Next thing you know people might be calling me a racist or something else crazy

Don't even know where this came from... but you say I am the one who is nuts.

I'm done trying to argue this with you. You have no case, and you bring nothing tothe table in a debate. Whenever you figure out that our laws aren't perfect and don't always protect you, let me know. A person in a fantasy and one in reality cannot debate. Have a great day.

I certainly hope you are done. We have a difference in philosophy, that is all. You want to go above what is required by law for a private transaction. Again, that is your right. I will not do any of those things you ask of... which is my right. Some folks don't shop at a store because they don't agree with a policy... this is the same thing. No need for the name calling...

[Charlies.Contingency]

Do you even think your statements through? Just moseying on according to the law is not sufficient IMO.

Ummm, did you think this through?... So, if the speed limit is 45 mph, do you drive 40 because "moseying on according to the law is not sufficient"?

Relevance? So if the speed limit for a turn says 45, you think you're safe at 45mph? I guess according to you, but you can bet that I do a little under the speed limit on a sharp turn. Do you believe everything you read and told? I have a bit more faith in you then that. I would like to believe you can think for yourself and do for yourself more than what the government suggests or tells you to do.

You accuse me of starting my own gun registration?

I didn't accuse you of anything, however, by your own admission, you have a de facto gun registration...

I have documented every one of my guns, and if I ever sold it, and to whom.

Any paper record that links the firearm to a buyer is a de facto registration. Why do you want all that info? So that you can point the police or gov on down the road if they come knocking on your door.... Same reason that the form 4473 was created by the 1968 Gun Control Act. Prior to that, there was no paperwork required... you could have firearms delivered to your door through mail order catalogs.

So you think it is wrong for me to have a written record of all my guns in case I lose or have one stolen? It would be hard to pinpoint which remington 870 I sold and which one was stolen if I don't have it documented on my part. I don't exactly like you pinning me to the left winged extremists for what I do personally. My information is not for public record, so please reword yourself.

Where does this make me a gun grabbin communist like you would like to say I am?

You may not grab them yourself, but I am a firm believer that the purpose for registration is confiscation... and again, you have all the notes handy to send the police or gov on down the way if confiscation were to ever happen.

So you ARE ACCUSING ME of something, when you don't even know me or my beliefs. You have no legit grounds, please refrain from making absurd accusations about people you do not know.

Did I ask people questions and such when I adopted out some puppies, yes I did. Oh wait, does that make me a doggy control advocate?

No, but now I understand you more. The dog "rescue" type people that I have interacted with are quite strange... claiming the dogs "need a good home" yet they have a lengthy adoption process, home visits, and other hoops to jump through... That is nuttier than squirrel poop too, but a topic for a different thread.

If you think so. It seems you do not understand me at all, in fact it seems more and more like I'm trying to talk through a brick wall here.

I better not talk about selling a truck, Next thing you know people might be calling me a racist or something else crazy.

Don't even know where this came from... but you say I am the one who is nuts.

Apparently 2 and 2 are getting farther apart, but I won't judge you.

I'm done trying to argue this with you. You have no case, and you bring nothing to the table in a debate. Whenever you figure out that our laws aren't perfect and don't always protect you, let me know. A person in a fantasy and one in reality cannot debate. Have a great day.

I certainly hope you are done. We have a difference in philosophy, that is all. You want to go above what is required by law for a private transaction. Again, that is your right. I will not do any of those things you ask of... which is my right. Some folks don't shop at a store because they don't agree with a policy... this is the same thing. No need for the name calling...

Philosophy? You're trying to accuse me of being some sort of government gun grabber. I would agree, but your standing is still unclear and confusing to me. It seems like you believe and follow the law as it is written, no matter what it is. It would seem more likely you would be the one to go along with gun laws, then the person who is non-trusting of others and just trying to keep his own. I especially don't trust the government, so I take offense when people say otherwise.

And name calling? Okay, I'm not sure where I insulted you, but I hope you take your judgements and accusations and troll elsewhere. Thanks for the chat.