I Think We're Done...

[Pariah3j]

1337,

Unless you served your opinion is without qualification.

I was in the Army infantry (1967 -1973).

Unit cohesion, esprit de corps, is very important. Having a transgender person being given special treatment would work to undermine morale in a very big way.

Having transgender people in my opinion would most definitely negatively affect morale.

I can imagine a number of scenarios that would be devastating to morale.

Contempt and they'd be plenty would adversely affect morale.

Not completely disagreeing with you but, the US Military was one of the first organizations to racially integrate, at the time some of the same arguments were made. There may have been some upsets at the time but it worked itself out. I think this too shall pass.

So to me assuming the person enlisted as an already Transgendered individual, they should be able to do so and as the gender they are or believe to be. I do not believe the military is the place to 'find yourself' or decide you want to transition. And they definitely should not be treated as special snowflakes. Provided all of that happens, I believe it can be done without eroding cohesion.

And who will pay for their transgender surgery? Once in the military it will be the taxpayer.

Did you read what I said ? I don't think the military/taxpayer should pay for it. You come in as whatever sex, and you stay assigned as that sex until you leave. Just because you are transgender should not be a disqualification for joining.

[MechAg94]

So how does the general state of affairs now compare to 1979 when Iran took hostages from our embassy for over year? We had a botched rescue attempt. Our military was not in the best of shape at that time. Some of the hangover from Vietnam was still there.

If the country is heading down the drain, it has been doing so for a while and will continue to do so for quite a while yet.

[Javier730]

1337,

Unless you served your opinion is without qualification.

I was in the Army infantry (1967 -1973).

Unit cohesion, esprit de corps, is very important. Having a transgender person being given special treatment would work to undermine morale in a very big way.

Having transgender people in my opinion would most definitely negatively affect morale.

I can imagine a number of scenarios that would be devastating to morale.

Contempt and they'd be plenty would adversely affect morale.

Not completely disagreeing with you but, the US Military was one of the first organizations to racially integrate, at the time some of the same arguments were made. There may have been some upsets at the time but it worked itself out. I think this too shall pass.

So to me assuming the person enlisted as an already Transgendered individual, they should be able to do so and as the gender they are or believe to be. I do not believe the military is the place to 'find yourself' or decide you want to transition. And they definitely should not be treated as special snowflakes. Provided all of that happens, I believe it can be done without eroding cohesion.

And who will pay for their transgender surgery? Once in the military it will be the taxpayer.

Did you read what I said ? I don't think the military/taxpayer should pay for it. You come in as whatever sex, and you stay assigned as that sex until you leave. Just because you are transgender should not be a disqualification for joining.

[parabelum]

1337,

Unless you served your opinion is without qualification.

I was in the Army infantry (1967 -1973).

Unit cohesion, esprit de corps, is very important. Having a transgender person being given special treatment would work to undermine morale in a very big way.

Having transgender people in my opinion would most definitely negatively affect morale.

I can imagine a number of scenarios that would be devastating to morale.

Contempt and they'd be plenty would adversely affect morale.

Not completely disagreeing with you but, the US Military was one of the first organizations to racially integrate, at the time some of the same arguments were made. There may have been some upsets at the time but it worked itself out. I think this too shall pass.

So to me assuming the person enlisted as an already Transgendered individual, they should be able to do so and as the gender they are or believe to be. I do not believe the military is the place to 'find yourself' or decide you want to transition. And they definitely should not be treated as special snowflakes. Provided all of that happens, I believe it can be done without eroding cohesion.

And who will pay for their transgender surgery? Once in the military it will be the taxpayer.

Did you read what I said ? I don't think the military/taxpayer should pay for it. You come in as whatever sex, and you stay assigned as that sex until you leave. Just because you are transgender should not be a disqualification for joining.

Are there no psychological disqualifications?

I mean, "transgender" is not just a definition, it's a mental condition in my opinion....

[Javier730]

https://youtu.be/zN7VSeja1dw

[rotor]

1337,

Unless you served your opinion is without qualification.

I was in the Army infantry (1967 -1973).

Unit cohesion, esprit de corps, is very important. Having a transgender person being given special treatment would work to undermine morale in a very big way.

Having transgender people in my opinion would most definitely negatively affect morale.

I can imagine a number of scenarios that would be devastating to morale.

Contempt and they'd be plenty would adversely affect morale.

Not completely disagreeing with you but, the US Military was one of the first organizations to racially integrate, at the time some of the same arguments were made. There may have been some upsets at the time but it worked itself out. I think this too shall pass.

So to me assuming the person enlisted as an already Transgendered individual, they should be able to do so and as the gender they are or believe to be. I do not believe the military is the place to 'find yourself' or decide you want to transition. And they definitely should not be treated as special snowflakes. Provided all of that happens, I believe it can be done without eroding cohesion.

And who will pay for their transgender surgery? Once in the military it will be the taxpayer.

Did you read what I said ? I don't think the military/taxpayer should pay for it. You come in as whatever sex, and you stay assigned as that sex until you leave. Just because you are transgender should not be a disqualification for joining.

That's what you say. In actuality though once you are in as active duty you can demand the military pay for the surgery. This is all just a big game though. I am more concerned with ISIS than the sex of the indeterminate that kills ISIS.

[Pariah3j]

1337,

Unless you served your opinion is without qualification.

I was in the Army infantry (1967 -1973).

Unit cohesion, esprit de corps, is very important. Having a transgender person being given special treatment would work to undermine morale in a very big way.

Having transgender people in my opinion would most definitely negatively affect morale.

I can imagine a number of scenarios that would be devastating to morale.

Contempt and they'd be plenty would adversely affect morale.

Not completely disagreeing with you but, the US Military was one of the first organizations to racially integrate, at the time some of the same arguments were made. There may have been some upsets at the time but it worked itself out. I think this too shall pass.

So to me assuming the person enlisted as an already Transgendered individual, they should be able to do so and as the gender they are or believe to be. I do not believe the military is the place to 'find yourself' or decide you want to transition. And they definitely should not be treated as special snowflakes. Provided all of that happens, I believe it can be done without eroding cohesion.

And who will pay for their transgender surgery? Once in the military it will be the taxpayer.

Did you read what I said ? I don't think the military/taxpayer should pay for it. You come in as whatever sex, and you stay assigned as that sex until you leave. Just because you are transgender should not be a disqualification for joining.

Are there no psychological disqualifications?

I mean, "transgender" is not just a definition, it's a mental condition in my opinion....

I agree that there is a large % of transgender people with nothing more then gender dysmorphia - but there is some medical evidence that backs up a small % of transgender people might have actual physical reason for feeling/believing what they do. I watched an interesting documentary a few years back about a doctor was researching the condition, things like XXY and possibly some hormonal development issues in the womb did account for it and he had physical evidence to suggest it wasn't just a dysmorphic condition. He was doing Brain scans, genetic tests and a couple other things and was more or less trying to find hard scientific proof for the issue. This was before transgender was a thing, or had been brought to the public's attention by people like Bruce Jenner. So yes, I would hope that a mental evaluation would be done to determine the person's mental condition with such an issue.

[Pariah3j]

1337,

Unless you served your opinion is without qualification.

I was in the Army infantry (1967 -1973).

Unit cohesion, esprit de corps, is very important. Having a transgender person being given special treatment would work to undermine morale in a very big way.

Having transgender people in my opinion would most definitely negatively affect morale.

I can imagine a number of scenarios that would be devastating to morale.

Contempt and they'd be plenty would adversely affect morale.

Not completely disagreeing with you but, the US Military was one of the first organizations to racially integrate, at the time some of the same arguments were made. There may have been some upsets at the time but it worked itself out. I think this too shall pass.

So to me assuming the person enlisted as an already Transgendered individual, they should be able to do so and as the gender they are or believe to be. I do not believe the military is the place to 'find yourself' or decide you want to transition. And they definitely should not be treated as special snowflakes. Provided all of that happens, I believe it can be done without eroding cohesion.

And who will pay for their transgender surgery? Once in the military it will be the taxpayer.

Did you read what I said ? I don't think the military/taxpayer should pay for it. You come in as whatever sex, and you stay assigned as that sex until you leave. Just because you are transgender should not be a disqualification for joining.

That's what you say. In actuality though once you are in as active duty you can demand the military pay for the surgery. This is all just a big game though. I am more concerned with ISIS than the sex of the indeterminate that kills ISIS.

Yes, I'm saying that I don't think the military or the taxpayer should be paying for it. I don't think it wouldn't be that hard to enforce that as a term of an enlistment contract or just make it a standing policy/rule.

[rotor]

1337,

snip, snip, snip
Yes, I'm saying that I don't think the military or the taxpayer should be paying for it. I don't think it wouldn't be that hard to enforce that as a term of an enlistment contract or just make it a standing policy/rule.

I know you don't think the military should pay for it but the military provides medical care for active duty (I will not say or remark about the quality). Mr. Obama and crew are not going to disqualify a confused gender person from care. Joe Schmo goes in and decides he wants to be Josephine Schmo. I couldn't care less about the transgender issue, only the fact that he will probably have to be shipped to a civilian center to have the surgery, figure cost at least $500K. You may not think the military will/should pay but when we do liver transplants on jailed individuals serving life sentences Joe Schmo will get his surgery at your/my expense. That's just the way the military is. Josephine may be an excellent soldier too. Look at this as a gimmick that people will use to get their genders surgically altered.

[LucasMcCain]

On the subject of the military paying for transgender surgery, I have a question I don't know the answer to:

Is there any other elective surgery that the military will pay for?

The answer to this question is probably the answer to whether the military will pay for transgender surgery. It is most definitely elective surgery. Nothing involved is life-threatening. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Does the military pay for weight loss surgery? Facelifts? Botox? Breast implants? If not, then I doubt seriously they will pay for gender reassignment surgery and hormone treatment. As always, I could be wrong.

[rotor]

On the subject of the military paying for transgender surgery, I have a question I don't know the answer to:

Is there any other elective surgery that the military will pay for?

The answer to this question is probably the answer to whether the military will pay for transgender surgery. It is most definitely elective surgery. Nothing involved is life-threatening. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Does the military pay for weight loss surgery? Facelifts? Botox? Breast implants? If not, then I doubt seriously they will pay for gender reassignment surgery and hormone treatment. As always, I could be wrong.

You are assuming that this is elective surgery but all of these transgender people undergo psychiatric eval before surgery is done and therefore is a "necessary" surgery if psych says they need it. But the military does routinely cover elective surgery. Sterilizations, infertility, breast implants ( the patient pays for the implant ) and on and on. I would bet that transgender surgery can not be performed in any military hospital because the military doesn't have docs trained to do the procedure. They would therefore send them to a civilian facility.

[parabelum]

I know that the enemy likes to use all sorts of distractions, but this was just released yesterday:

"Pentagon issues sex change manual, allows extended time off for process"


http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/ ... extended-/

[rotor]

I know that the enemy likes to use all sorts of distractions, but this was just released yesterday:

"Pentagon issues sex change manual, allows extended time off for process"


http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/ ... extended-/

My point is proven. Unfortunately.

[LucasMcCain]

And a little more of my faith in the sanity of our nation's decision makers dies. There's not much left. I'm increasingly thankful that my faith and hope for the future does not reside in governments or politicians.

[cyphur]

Whether we are done as a country has absolutely nothing to do with transgendered individuals in the military. None whatsoever.

Blacks in specialty positions, officers, pilots.
Then people were allowed to serve as long as they kept their homosexuality hush hush.
Then it was ruled that openly gay soliders were acceptable.
Then women in combat roles (they've been serving with Special Forces in Cultural Support Teams for over ten years.....).
Now transgendered people can openly stay in the service.


At no point in time did any of the aforementioned events really cause any serious harm to the defense of our nation. Whether you agree with an individual's choice or sexual preference, it is what it is. It has been federal law making it illegal to discriminate on sexual preference, ethnicity, gender, etc.

And yes, before anyone berates me for lack of context, I did serve, and also spent time in Afghanistan as a contractor.



Now, this country may very well be headed down the drain, but is has nothing to do with transgenders. In the military or otherwise.