Crockett Keller May Loose CHL Instructor Lic. for Radio Ad

[Charles L. Cotton]

Looks like Mr Keller will have to ride the ride . He needs to be more cautious now. His license can be revoke by the State to set an example to others, that is, lay aside your personal politics of the day .

I'm not going to get into the instructor's comments, but qualifications for obtaining an instructor certificate are the same for getting a CHL. The only legal grounds to suspend or revoke a CHL or Certificate are those set out in the Government Code sections dealing with eligibility. There is no more discretion in issuing or revoking an instructor's certificate than there is a CHL, and as CHL holders, we don't want it to be any different. Until and unless the instructor is convicted of a disqualifying criminal act, I see no grounds to revoke his certificate.

Chas.

Isn't one of the potential reasons for having one's CHL revoked/suspended being incapable of demonstrating/exercising sound judgment? Just sayin'!

No, not as you present it. The "good judgment" requirement is limited solely to proper use and storage of a handgun. (See below.) Even if your description of this man were accurate, the issue has nothing to do with proper use and storage of a handgun. If your argument were the law, then DPS would have wide discretion to deny a CHL. As I noted, the requirements for getting a CHL and an instructor certificate are the same. What can be done to an instructor can be done to a CHL.

Chas.

Sec. 411.172. ELIGIBILITY.

(a) A person is eligible for a license to carry a concealed handgun if the person:

. . .

(7) is not incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun;

[wharvey]

My only comment is...

It amazes me that a group of people so quick to defend the 2nd amendment -- would so quickly abandon the 1st.

AMEN!

[MasterOfNone]

Isn't one of the potential reasons for having one's CHL revoked/suspended being incapable of demonstrating/exercising sound judgment? Just sayin'!

The entire requirement is "is not incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun;" (GC 411.172(a)(7)). Nothing in his comments indicates that he lacks this.

And you mean to tell me that having poor judgment elsewhere doesn't jeopardize your eligibility to get/keep your CHL?

That's exactly what I mean to tell you. If you meet the eligibility requirements as stated in the Government Code, you are eligible.

[wharvey]

Just like the 2nd amendment, there are limits on the 1st. It would not be a good idea to walk around with a gun in your hand and lay it on the table in a restaurant because the 2nd guarantees you the “right to keep and bear arms”. It would also not be a good idea to stand on the street corner shouting racial slurs at every non Caucasian that passes by.

Of course there is a limit. I suspect in the not too distant future the courts will say that you are free to speak anytime you wish, BUT YOU VILL SAY ONLY WHAT VE APPROVE!! Absurd, of course, but so is not being allowed to carry a gun when you drop a letter in the mailbox.

As an aside, I thought the Bill of Rights were to protect us from the government, not us from each other. It is true that one can not say whatever they want to IF it causes damage to another. Until that specific damage happens, meaning some one that was hurt complains, there is no violation of the law that can result in penalty. The penalty also must be appropriate.

I also do not think that a CHL instructor's license is considered a profession license like a medical or lawyer license is. Therefore the code of conduct is no where as high and unless he violates something spelled out in the law that concerns his license then there can be no penalty that involves the revocation the license. Alcoholism, illegal drug use, violent assault; sure it can be revoke. Using his driving finger or calling someone a racial slur may say something about his character but shouldn't effect the status of his license. (Of course if it escalates into a physical confrontation then that is a different matter.)

At least that is my non-lawyer interpretation.

In reading this thread it just seems that a lot of people want Keller to be penalized because what he said goes contrary to their sensibilities. VERY PC

[bayouhazard]

My only comment is...

It amazes me that a group of people so quick to defend the 2nd amendment -- would so quickly abandon the 1st.

AMEN!

I dare you to
1) get in the security line at the airport and announce you have a bomb,
2) base your defense on the 1st amendment.

Thanksgiving is coming up if you need a good time.

No need to come back and post a report well see on the news how it works.

[sjfcontrol]

My only comment is...

It amazes me that a group of people so quick to defend the 2nd amendment -- would so quickly abandon the 1st.

AMEN!

I dare you to
1) get in the security line at the airport and announce you have a bomb,
2) base your defense on the 1st amendment.

Thanksgiving is coming up if you need a good time.

No need to come back and post a report well see on the news how it works.

Sure. As soon as the TSA agrees to be bound by the bill of rights. Seems there are several of those they ignore on a regular basis.

[tbrown]

As I noted, the requirements for getting a CHL and an instructor certificate are the same. What can be done to an instructor can be done to a CHL.

What about the TAC §6.90 requirements posted on page 3? Aren't those only binding on instructors and instructor applicants?

[Dragonfighter]

As I noted, the requirements for getting a CHL and an instructor certificate are the same. What can be done to an instructor can be done to a CHL.

What about the TAC §6.90 requirements posted on page 3? Aren't those only binding on instructors and instructor applicants?

Would you be so kind as to quote specifically what you are citing? I, er I mean some of us may be too lazy to look it up. I could not find a chapter 6 in the Texas Agriculture Code and the others don't seem to fit the "TAC" abbreviation.

[Charles L. Cotton]

As I noted, the requirements for getting a CHL and an instructor certificate are the same. What can be done to an instructor can be done to a CHL.

What about the TAC §6.90 requirements posted on page 3? Aren't those only binding on instructors and instructor applicants?

Instructors have to comply with the Texas Administrative Code provisions, but only when such rules do not violate or exceed the authority of the enabling statute. The only eligibility requirements and the only grounds for revocation of an instructor certificate are set out in Gov't Code. We made sure there was no discretion either for CHL's or instructors.

Even if TAC §690 was fully enforceable as written, it would not have anything to do with this instructor. He hasn't violated anything mentioned in 690.

Chas.

[tbrown]

It was posted on page 3 but here it is for convenience.

http://tinyurl.com/3j2kmgd
Instructor applicants and certified handgun instructors are required to comply with all applicable municipal ordinances, state and federal statutes, and rules, regulations, policies and operational procedures of the Texas Department of Public Safety and the Texas Department of Public Safety Training Academy. Failure to comply may constitute grounds for removal from training, or denial, suspension, or revocation of instructor certification.

Also for convenience, I'll remind people that a concealed handgun license generally can't be revoked or denied for class C misdemeanors like violating municipal ordinances.

[wgoforth]

CASE CLOSED!
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[sjfcontrol]

CASE CLOSED!
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The Texas Council on American-Islamic Relations said the state’s decision “sounded funny.”

Reminds me of the old joke about why cannibals don't eat clowns -- they taste funny!

[bowserb]

It seems that people these days are just looking for reasons to be criminally insulted...that is, unless the person delivering the insult is "protected". I heard of some guy who was elected president after making a really insulting remark about small town Pennsylvanians:

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

If Keller is still doing them, I'm going to Mason for my next CHL renewal. When the next Alamo happens, I want Keller on my side of the wall!

BTW, if you want a proper model for gun laws, look at Pennsylvania.

[wgoforth]

It seems that people these days are just looking for reasons to be criminally insulted...that is, unless the person delivering the insult is "protected". I heard of some guy who was elected president after making a really insulting remark about small town Pennsylvanians:

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

If Keller is still doing them, I'm going to Mason for my next CHL renewal. When the next Alamo happens, I want Keller on my side of the wall!

BTW, if you want a proper model for gun laws, look at Pennsylvania.

Agree with all but the last sentence. PA has a lot going for their laws to be sure, but their open carry laws are that you can OC in some cities and not others, and police are very confused about which is which, to the point of almost shooting a man who was lawfully open carrying. A Sargent for the Philly Dept didn't know the law, now a young man may go to prison for 2 years for "public disruption" since they couldn't make their open carry illegal claim stick.

[sjfcontrol]

It seems that people these days are just looking for reasons to be criminally insulted...that is, unless the person delivering the insult is "protected". I heard of some guy who was elected president after making a really insulting remark about small town Pennsylvanians:

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

If Keller is still doing them, I'm going to Mason for my next CHL renewal. When the next Alamo happens, I want Keller on my side of the wall!

BTW, if you want a proper model for gun laws, look at Pennsylvania.

Agree with all but the last sentence. PA has a lot going for their laws to be sure, but their open carry laws are that you can OC in some cities and not others, and police are very confused about which is which, to the point of almost shooting a man who was lawfully open carrying. A Sargent for the Philly Dept didn't know the law, now a young man may go to prison for 2 years for "public disruption" since they couldn't make their open carry illegal claim stick.

Hmmm, sounds more like the the Sargent is guilty of "public disruption"