Shoot back at LEOs

[A-R]

Allow me.



Anygunanywhere

+1

And my sincere apologies for contributing to it. I'm done.

[03Lightningrocks]

In before dalock!

[dac1842]

For those that doubt that the LEO's are exempt here you go.
Sec. 545.365. SPEED LIMIT EXCEPTION FOR EMERGENCIES; MUNICIPAL REGULATION. (a) The regulation of the speed of a vehicle under this subchapter does not apply to:
(1) an authorized emergency vehicle responding to a call;
(2) a police patrol; or
(3) a physician or ambulance responding to an emergency call.
(b) A municipality by ordinance may regulate the speed of:
(1) an ambulance;
(2) an emergency medical services vehicle; or
(3) an authorized vehicle operated by a blood or tissue bank.

As stated in a my previous post. You may not like, but it is what it is, get over it.

[brainman]

For those that doubt that the LEO's are sometimes exempt here you go.
Sec. 545.365. SPEED LIMIT EXCEPTION FOR EMERGENCIES; MUNICIPAL REGULATION. (a) The regulation of the speed of a vehicle under this subchapter does not apply to:
(1) an authorized emergency vehicle responding to a call;
(2) a police patrol; or
(3) a physician or ambulance responding to an emergency call.
(b) A municipality by ordinance may regulate the speed of:
(1) an ambulance;
(2) an emergency medical services vehicle; or
(3) an authorized vehicle operated by a blood or tissue bank.

As stated in a my previous post. You may not like, but it is what it is, get over it.

Fixed it for you,

[stevie_d_64]

To the original poster...

No...

Because if you survive long enough to return fire (whether it is a mistake or not on their part)...Your shooting back at them does tend to improve their aim...And potentially the amount of rounds heading in your direction...

I'm not so sure I like those odds...

[gigag04]

Something!?!?

Hey buddy where ya been? Playing with that fiddy cal?

[cw3van]

The only situation that this makes me think of is the gentleman whose house was mistakenly raided by some "swat" team in Arizona, and the former army (maybe marine) soldier lost his life defending his home against the invaders who happened to be LEO's, but made a dreadful mistake of which house to invade.

I cannot see how anyone in this man's shoes, if he had survived, could be prosecuted afterwards for defending your house, self, or family. There would be no way to know whether the invaders were LEO or just home invaders.

Police are taught to yell police as they come through the door we have badges, uniforms so why would any lawful citizen try to fight when all they have to do is follow the commands & sort things out. Police are human who make mistakes the one in California was a bad mistake.

[E.Marquez]

Police are taught to yell police as they come through the door we have badges, uniforms so why would any lawful citizen try to fight when all they have to do is follow the commands & sort things out. Police are human who make mistakes the one in California was a bad mistake.

To be fair, being taught something does not equal doing it.
There is ample evidence to support,at times LEOs have not followed the procedures you describe.
There is ample evidence to support,at times LEOs have shot first, and looked for justification later.
There is ample evidence to support,at times LEOs have been completely mistaken in the location or presence of the suspects sought, yet entered the habitation with full force, no knock dynamic entry in the wee hours during limited visibility. Reality is, they do that to my home, being a person with no expectation of LEOs doing a dynamic breach of my door, asleep, in a different room I will likely NOT HEAR some muffled "police" as they enter the breached door, I will not likely see a badge as they enter, I will not be in a mental position to understand or expect that those coming though my door MIGHT be police, I will likely respond with deadly force to stop the incoming threat. I will likely realize at some point in the firefight, it is law enforcement... If they continue to engage, I likely will as well. And No one will end up a winner in that engagement.. Not me, not the mistaken police team, just doing what they thought was right.

The chances of any of that happening are about as likely as a plane crashing in to my home... so Im not overly concerned about it. LEO's making a mistake and doing a no knock at the wrong house is horrible..., doing so at the WRONG house is likely to end much worse then at some of the events we have seen in the media.. but at the same time,,, THOSE kind of places that would end in a very bad encounter are less likable to be mistaken for a Meth Lab by mistake Id guess.

[srothstein]

In addition to what E. Marquez posted, there have been documented instances of criminals who kick in the door while yelling police. Those incidents very rarely end well for anyone.

If I wait to be sure that the people coming in the door while wearing jeans and t-shirts, I may be too late to defend myself. Cops are also taught to have people wearing uniforms for a reason.

[FishInTx]

No. Hyped up people with military gear and weapons tend to get more hyped up when they are getting shot at. There might be some scenario for a yes but overall, no.

[The Annoyed Man]

No. Hyped up people with military gear and weapons tend to get more hyped up when they are getting shot at. There might be some scenario for a yes but overall, no.

Not sure what that means. I own several "military style" rifles and a "military style" tactical shotgun. Are you implying that I am more likely to be hyped up if my door gets kicked down at 3:00 a.m.? Really? I'm a 60 year old man. I'm likely to be crapping my pants, just like you'd be, if someone did that in my home. Would I grab the nearest gun and respond? Sure, but my attitude doing so has literally nothing with whether I'm grabbing a pistol or a pump action shotgun or an AR15.

Am I misunderstanding you?

[FishInTx]

[quote="The Annoyed Man"

Am I misunderstanding you?[/quote]


Yes.

The police(with military gear) are hyped up already shooting at you. If you shoot back they will more than likely get more hyped up. There may be some scenarios where you need to shoot back to get cops to stop shooting at you, but I believe in most cases it would be best to not shoot back. So my answer is don't shoot back at LEO's.IMO YMMV

[Dragonfighter]

<SNIP>

Sec. 546.001. PERMISSIBLE CONDUCT. In operating an authorized emergency vehicle the operator may:
(1) park or stand, irrespective of another provision of this subtitle;
(2) proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign, after slowing as necessary for safe operation;
(3) exceed a maximum speed limit, except as provided by an ordinance adopted under Section 545.365, as long as the operator does not endanger life or property; and
(4) disregard a regulation governing the direction of movement or turning in specified directions.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

All of the above is also dependent upon department policy, local ordinances, etc. Feel free to read all of the laws regarding emergency vehicle operation, duty of care, etc. http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... TN.546.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
<SNIP>

em mine

Something that was drilled into our heads by DPS is that fire and rescue apparatus are emergency vehicles at all times while police cruisers are emergency vehicles only when lights and sirens are operating.

There are a million reasons I can think of for an LEO to make haste without either, stealth and what not, but you cream someone and your toast. I have sat on too many accident review panels where just such an incident occurred; one in which the female was suspended without pay AFTER she got out of the hospital.

To the OP. The law prescribes use of force to prevent unlawful arrest and unjust force used against a person by LEO. The practical reality is that excepting rare circumstances, the family is who would be vindicated once the LEOs are found to be wrong. That said, that is not a reason to defer protecting yourself, but the end may be determined in post mortem.

[bizarrenormality]

No. Hyped up people with military gear and weapons tend to get more hyped up when they are getting shot at. There might be some scenario for a yes but overall, no.

That reminds me of the FOPpy advice not to fight a rapist because he'll get mad and hurt you.

If somebody is shooting at me, the best way to stop the threat is stop the shooter. It doesn't matter what religion he is, the color of his skin or clothes, or who signs his paycheck. Active shooter gets an active response.

[srothstein]

Something that was drilled into our heads by DPS is that fire and rescue apparatus are emergency vehicles at all times while police cruisers are emergency vehicles only when lights and sirens are operating.

They were giving their policy, not the law.

Transportation Code says:

Sec. 541.201. VEHICLES. In this subtitle:
(1) "Authorized emergency vehicle" means:
(A) a fire department or police vehicle;
(B) a public or private ambulance operated by a person who has been issued a license by the Texas Department of Health;
(C) a municipal department or public service corporation emergency vehicle that has been designated or authorized by the governing body of a municipality;
(D) a private vehicle of a volunteer firefighter or a certified emergency medical services employee or volunteer when responding to a fire alarm or medical emergency;
(E) an industrial emergency response vehicle, including an industrial ambulance, when responding to an emergency, but only if the vehicle is operated in compliance with criteria in effect September 1, 1989, and established by the predecessor of the Texas Industrial Emergency Services Board of the State Firemen's and Fire Marshals' Association of Texas;
(F) a vehicle of a blood bank or tissue bank, accredited or approved under the laws of this state or the United States, when making emergency deliveries of blood, drugs, medicines, or organs; or
(G) a vehicle used for law enforcement purposes that is owned or leased by a federal governmental entity.